AI in Amazon Agencies: Game-Changer or Shiny Distraction?

Paul Sonneveld
My name is Paul Sonneveld, and I'm the host of this podcast and co-founder at MerchantSpring. Now, today, we're going to be diving into one of the hottest and perhaps most controversial topics that is happening in our industry, namely AI. Is it actually the breakthrough we've all been waiting for, or is it just another shiny distraction pulling us away from really what matters in terms of our clients? To explore this, I am joined by a great friend of mine, Chris Turton, Managing Director of Ecommerce Intelligence in the UK. 

Chris has built a reputation for growing brands on Amazon with a very transparent, no-nonsense approach, and he's not afraid to take a contrarian stance. We're going to unpack with him what AI really means for agencies, what's hype, what's real, and where leaders should focus their energy today. And of course, this is a live session, so don't forget, leave your questions in the LinkedIn comments or YouTube comments, and we'll ensure to leave plenty of time to get to those at the end. Without further ado, let's welcome Chris to the show today. Chris, it's so great to have you with us again. 

Chris Turton
Good morning, Paul. Yeah. And thank you for having me on again for the third time now. It's still my no-nonsense approach. 

Paul Sonneveld
I think I was counting the other day. I think we've done close to, I don't know, well over a hundred episodes now. So I think you were part of one of the very first couple of episodes we've done, actually. So thank you for joining us on the journey. And it's always a pleasure to pick your brain. You always give a fresh perspective. So let's not elevate expectations, but I think this is certainly an interesting topic and something that you're very passionate about as well. So why don't we dig into it? Maybe just start high level. Chris, what do you see as the biggest misconception about AI in the Amazon agency world right now? 

Chris Turton
I think the biggest misconception is that it's all-encompassing. So, somehow, there is this concept that AI can empower the entire end-to-end funnel. And using it means that it takes brands just to click a few buttons, get involved in those tools, and they're successful. They're covered. I think AI has some great applications. Look at things like Amazon's Creative Studio. The generative AI piece is really smart, really clever. But the problem is that a lot of these tools are being really revered, and there's a huge disparity when it comes to the tools the generative AI side versus the agentic side, the data compiling side. 

And the issue I think, is that people are always looking for that quick fix. It's not just agencies, it's not just consultants, it's also brands as well. And the layers of professional development within Amazon, as you very well know, with MerchantSpring’s Tools, with the data-led pieces, the profitability, the structures, the P&Ls, all those bits and pieces are so multi-layered. And at the moment, the AI application piece just hasn't quite got down to those levels. And I think that's where a lot of people are really making that misstep. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, and I would add to that. The thing that they're very good at is making you believe they've got there, right? And making you believe there's a substance behind that. You know, I've fallen victim of that a couple of times myself, to be honest. So, 

Paul Sonneveld and Chris Turton
a hundred percent. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. Which then brings the question, Chris, right? How do you, particularly, you know, there's new shiny tools, AI tools coming our way every single day, right? And we're all on the lookout. We're all trying to drive productivity improvements, you know? Certainly, the cost pressure hasn't gone away on Amazon agencies, that's for sure. But how do you differentiate between useful AI applications versus kind of hype-driven tools that come across your desk every day? How do you think about them? How do you sort of evaluate it without burning too much time on things really that probably don't matter at this point? 

Chris Turton
It's got to be a tried and tested approach. So I think what a lot of people are doing, and this is the same for all SaaS type businesses and softwares is people jump in and say, What can I find? And really, it should be, how does it solve this particular problem for me? So, you know, if you are finding certain parts of your funnel and your business are stifling, you need to find a solution rather than saying, I know I'll just plug into an anthropic model or I'll plug this in or do that. You've got to work from the reverse side. You've got to work out how that's going to solve an issue. 

So I've looked at probably about twenty different AI tools from different peers on LinkedIn, mainly. And a lot of the common commonality between them is a lot of them are where a lot of chat agents come in, you know, your GPTs, your Claudes, they're all very top line. So it's all things that are more generative, you know, content creation tools, image creation, report generation. But the reality is that brands really need to get really under that deep understanding of the conversion optimisation, brand IP development, things that tools can't replicate yet. Things that are probably coming further down the line, but they just can't be replicated yet and brands regularly tell us when I speak to twenty, twenty-five brands, you know, every week. 

And there is never a question of how does your AI stack look? How does this look? It's all about those core fundamentals. You know, how do I get a better ROI? How do I protect my brand and my catalogue? How do I do all those bits and pieces? And we need to stop treating AI like it's all or nothing. It's not a this is this tool and this answers the solution. It is going to be a case of how do we balance that tool with the operations of our business, but then how do they also do the best work for the, you know, for the, for the brands and the sellers that we as Amazon professionals represent. 

Paul Sonneveld
What about the sort of switching a little bit to, to the external focus here, right? So Amazon themselves are getting pretty heavily into AI. I mean, lots of examples, even we saw them at accelerate, but even when you just think about like, Rufus and the Cosmos and the search engine algorithms and all the like, it's getting a lot of attention, right? What is your take on the actual impact? I mean, is it revolutionising how people shop? Should it be revolutionising how we think about, you know, ranking, SEO optimisation, conversion optimisation I mean, is everything we do just obsolete next year? What's your take on all this? 

Chris Turton
Well, the fact is, right now, we don't know the long-term impact. So Amazon has been really keen to drive Rufus. They've obviously invested quite a lot into it. The idea of it sounds great, you know, this whole idea of a personal shopping assistant. But what we aren't seeing yet is the uptake, the fundamental uptake in the tool. So the real problem we have is as agencies, we've got to be smarter with the decisions we make for our clients. So we've got to make sure we're investing our time and the client's money in the right places. 

So, at the moment is that, you know, some of the stats that have come out around Rufus are fairly slim in terms of what we think their impacts are. So there was an agency that last year projected that Rufus makes up about thirteen percent of searches. Now, that hasn't really been updated, but we know that there hasn't been a great uptake for repeat visit. I think some of the information from Statistics came out that there was, during Prime Day, there was a spike, but then there's been no information about how much people are using or reusing that information. You know, Stephen Pope from My Amazon Guide suggests that they think about three out of a hundred purchases. So, you know, such a small amount, three percent of purchases are already done on Rufus. 

So what we're seeing is effectively a spike. agencies need to be careful about overreacting to the hype over real customer acquisition, you know, real customer adaptation. They need to be careful about saying, right, this is where it's all at and we need to do this because what happens is they tend to overlook the core stuff, you know and we've seen um bloomberg and business week and business insider all really suggesting this there's a real lack of usability within rufus right now you know we keep being told oh you know it's it's able to do some wonderful things but then in real world practice, it's not always there it's not quite there yet. 

So I'm not going to say, do you know what, it's terrible, don't use it. What I'm saying is that at the moment, we've got to view it as what it is. And that is a very small part of the actual customer adaptation journey. And for us, it wouldn't make much sense as an agency for, you know, seventy plus clients if we invested a lot of time and money in that segment to then for it not to take off or something changes or do you know what maybe even we realize in a few years time that actually customer customers don't want a standardized e-commerce product delivered directly to them customers still might want that idea of that shopping experience being able to browse being able to freely be able to access the the shopping platforms that they do 

So at the moment we just don't know that data and and this is why I'm always quite opinionated in this process because I don't want us to get too ahead of ourselves with these things. I think things are going to change. I feel like it's We're still in the very early days of it, and I think this first round of tools, this first range of ideas may end up becoming like the whole bubble, the internet millennium bubble, where it just kind of burst, and then everything kind of went back, and then things moved forward again a couple of years later. We could see the same thing. So that's on the Rufus side. 

I think Cosmo, which is this new idea of a common sense engine, so something that's running Amazon's search behind the scenes, that looks more at the common sense of how people search rather than just keywords. So being able to pair what customers are buying with what they think they're going to buy with. I think that that is, again, something that we know is coming in and being developed. But the problem is is people are now focusing their efforts on trying to drive or manipulate the algorithm. 

So they're thinking more in the lines of, well, how do I make the most of this? Where my concept has always been, like it has been the last thirteen years I've been selling on Amazon. The core concept of how we think about search is Amazon is always going to rank products and recommend products based on the referral fees, the Ad fees and the FBA fees it makes on products. So it needs consistency in deliverability of those products and things like customer journeys, albeit important. They are going to be secondary if Amazon is making less money. 

So our mindsets as agencies and consultancies have to be on how do we focus our clients drive and their marketing and their Amazon SEO on the basis of performance sales consistency sales velocity rather than trying to manipulate it by going how do we write this so that the cosmo engine will think this so that's kind of my sort of contrarian approach I guess in terms of it being a bit more balanced than what we're seeing you know all over our industry all over Linkedin and things.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no that that absolutely makes sense and it certainly resonates particularly around the kind of the interaction between Amazon's commercial incentives, right? And the real potential for AI. I mean, you know, to your point earlier, there might be a small like arbitrage window where you can sort of, there might be a gap and you can sort of exploit that. You know, Amazon's probably going to evolve the AMI models anyway, and they're going to close pretty quickly. Like they've had with standard search. But, you know, more broadly, that interplay, right, between AI, the real potential of AI to really recommend and put consumers in front of the right product for them versus the commercial incentives. Amazon is a commercial business, right? How do you think that's going to play out together? Yeah. How do you think that's going to play out? 

Chris Turton
Yeah, I think that sellers already do a very, very good job. So if we look at how traditional products rank now, you'll see that the majority of them have the elements down that make the products that rank and work well. So things like product dimensions and key information, and item specifics they are the things that will drive AI engines to understand relevant product ranges. So, you know, there was a really good case example of Cosmo where it was finding someone, if they'd asked for pregnancy shoes, it knew to find these sort of flat-soled product shoes that were that would be useful for women in that situation.

That's very good at a top level, but we've got to be mindful of things like making sure that keywords sufficiently evaluate that, and the content that's in the product listing itself has to make sure that it matches the search. So there is always going to be this interim of making sure that the content piece, the actual data that you provide within your PDPs and your listing pages, is going to be suitable. I think sellers do a really good job of that now. And I think really the AI engines and the AI tools that Amazon build into its search function will do more to facilitate those than sellers having to facilitate Amazon, if that makes sense. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, absolutely. I think, Sorry, go ahead. 

Chris Turton
What I was going to say in a very basic system is I think people who are sellers that are already using the best way to capitalise on their product listings, and the ones that really explain features over benefits and all those points will already match the capabilities of what the AI structure is going to do. Cosmo is going to be sort of like a synonym engine, and Google has done this very well for years. It understands that an industry word is very different to a search word. 

So a great example would be that in the industry, if you have a TV mount on the wall, the industry word is TV bracket, where the customer searches tend to be for TV mounts. But synonyms, kind of like how Cosmo works, knows that those things are very similar. So those kind of things are going to be impacted more for Amazon than they are for the sellers because the sellers that are optimising listings already and doing everything right within those product spaces will get the most out of them. 

And Amazon is still going to drive things like referral fees as its key driver because it's not going to recommend a product because it provides a customer journey, a better customer journey with a product that's got no reviews or no sales history, rather than a product that might be a bit similar but has a huge impact for its bottom line. So that's going to be the main thing we see going forward, I think, and we don't want to get too overjumpy in terms of making sure that we're focusing on spamming different areas because we think the AI will work better for us if that makes sense. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, yeah. There's another angle to this conversation which is obviously you know let's go back to the agency specifically we're dealing with amazon we're also dealing with clients and clients are also looking at AI tools, they're seeing things like you know rufus but they're also seeing other tools like chatgpt and various other things and you know the cost pressure is on as well. So I'm sure you know, I'd love to get your perspective, but agencies are under huge pressure, even from their own clients, right, to adopt AI tools. And I think we've got a great question from Guy Aretz, which I'll get to in a sec. But before that, I want to just ask you, you know, when you feel that pressure, right, to adopting AI tools, particularly coming from clients, you know, how do you deal with it? How do you evaluate that piece? And how do you deflect it if needed? 

Chris Turton
Well, we don't really get specific questions from clients that say, how are you using AI? The core thing they're asking isn't about AI. It's the core thing of how do you make sure you're getting the best return on investment for us? How do you make sure that you're delivering a good-rounded service that gives us the maximum return on investment for our brands? That's where we tend to get the questions, not around how do you use AI to save time doing that? Because, effectively, we are still using AI in formats. 

There are some things it's very good at doing. It's very good at getting data and simplifying data and really breaking that down. There's some really good use cases of people trying to get data for things like subscribe and save or discount codes. And if you've got a large amount of sellers that are using them, you can get reporting data and find commonalities in terms of what people are getting highest in discounts, how frequent subscribe and save orders are coming in. There's little elements like that or data, you know, commingling that can be really, really helpful. And that's fantastic with something like ChatGPT or, you know, or Claude is very good at doing that and presenting all its little artifacts it calls them you know there's little like spreadsheets and things it does really really well so. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. 

Chris Turton
I think that's the main thing. If we go back to talking about AI and the use with it within agencies, I think a lot of it boils down to the very simple fact that you know agency space in 2019 which is when we started e-commerce intelligence six and a half years ago now there was a handful of agencies you know there was you could probably put them on two hands in terms of the number of agencies that existed out there just in the UK alone now, there is seventy, eighty, maybe a hundred different players now in the space. 

And AI has become a very good angle. It's a good niche for brands to focus on, you know, or for agencies to focus on. And for certain sellers, that looks fantastic. You know, an AI agency, great. But my concern with that is that when you start looking in those areas, the fundamentals get lost. The core bread and butter fundamentals of running an Amazon business get lost. So the things that really make the difference are your click-through rates, your conversion rates, your real core stuff. If you are going to high up on the top funnel AI side, how does that really get into the nuts and bolts of the development of the business? And, you know, we've actually had, when we have had inquiries relating back to AI, some of those have been, I've used AI to make all my listings. I'm not getting anywhere. 

And we're going, well, okay, you know, you may be testing things. You're looking at conversion rate data. You're looking at click-through rate data to really understand the process of your business. And they go, well, no, I just let AI handle it. And that's where a lot of the trip-ups are going to become. And that's where I think that's going to happen over the next year. So AI looks great as a sort of an angle, you know, a fresh approach to our now getting rather crowded industry space. But it does feel like a lot of the fundamentals are being lost when you just see people focusing on how to optimise for Rufus and Cosmo all day. 

Paul Sonneveld
Well, unfortunately, AI, or fortunately, does create very compelling marketing content, right? Playing into that hype right now. I think people will see through that at some point. But I'm probably more interested in, you know, as a practitioner, as you're saying, you've been in business for six years or so, close to. 

Chris Turton
Yeah, selling on Amazon for thirteen, yeah. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, it's a wealth of experience there. But in terms of like just day-to-day operations of your agency, you know, like let's talk about the positives here. Like, what are the AI tools or things or processes that you have taken advantage of? And you can confidently say, you know what, this thing is, this part of our business is now running like way better than it did like two years ago or faster, quicker, smarter, more deeper. You know, are there any sort of success or, practical applications that you'd like to hold up? 

Chris Turton
Yeah, certainly. Definitely things within the reporting space and data commingulation, especially when you've got a lot of data to crunch. You can write certain prompts that really allow you to be able to get into the crux of that data and be able to bullet point large data sets. That's one of its really big advantages. I think content can be done on the fly really well. Generative image creation can be done quite well. But the crucial thing is when we start looking at it, we've got to test it. 

Because what a lot of people are fascinated with doing is saying, OK, I can just get Amazon to create a hundred and fifty-character title for me. And then it's like ticking the box, done, flashing the pan, I can focus on something else. And it's only a few months later when they come back and go, actually, that's not helped me move the needle at all. And that's where we've got to make sure that there's that under level of making sure the performance piece is there. So I think, yeah, so for us, I think, yeah, to kind of really answer that, it is... kind of commingulation and simplification of reporting and data. And like I said, things like Claude is fantastic at doing that. 

And then the initial, I never use the word optimisation because for me it's not optimised if you're just creating a listing. Optimisation takes a lot of time, a lot of efficiency, a lot of development to grow. But it gets the creative up and launched. It's a faster way to launch, which is great. But it's from there you then need to really ascertain what's working and what isn't. That's a really, really big factor, when it comes to the piece of AI you're using. You've got to make sure that you've got the top level, but you've got to make sure you're doing the underside to keep on the ball with it.

Paul Sonneveld 
Which sort of intrigues me. I mean, this is something that we've been thinking a lot about this year is, AI. Adoption of AI is a journey, right? You've got people involved. It's a big change management piece. There is those in the team that will run a million miles an hour and, you know, distracted by lots of shiny objects. And then those that are quite sad in doing things in a more traditional manner. It's hard to get them on board with things that, you know, do drive productivity improvements. Well, first of all, a couple of questions there. One is how do you balance that innovation with kind of staying disciplined on the fundamentals? But also, I'm really curious to see what on a practical level, like how do you upskill your team on AI tools, processes in a way that helps everyone, not just for your agency, but also for people's career development? 

Chris Turton
Yeah, I think in two forms. So for us, the innovation piece has always been driven by the feedback of customers and then using what, maybe not necessarily what customers say, because I think that's not quite innovation, but the outputs that you create as a business that provide value, that people see value, that people pick you up on. So it's that whole health return investment and strong profitability, controlling and kind of supporting the brand and the intellectual property, getting things like sales growth there, the market share management, and then making sure you've got that communication and transparency piece. If we hit those four pillars of what we try and do for customers, you can then develop innovative processes for your business. 

For me it's not about innovation just within AI you've got to look at everything very holistically and if we find newer ways to execute the return investment for sellers using AI tools then then you know we will do so and we are constantly testing little things we're using these little tools like na-ten which allows you to you know plug into different elements you can put into a chatbot here and you can plug it into Google Drive, you can then plug it into a range of different APIs that can produce all sorts of data for you, including things like AWS. There's so many different ways that you can interpret things. 

Again, it's all a case of balancing it so that the value we produce for our clients isn't at the behest of trying to get something to work that effectively we could output faster because sometimes people will end up delving into a world of prompts and then finding actually we could have just done this much faster if we just done it a standard way and that's always been a thing I think especially within our industry you know you'll be trying to make these more complex processes work or code something and then find actually we just continue doing this manually we'll be much faster to do. So yeah, that's definitely from more of an innovation side. 

And then in terms of how we sort of plug that across to the team, it's a case of we we constantly adapt our product so we adapt it in two ways we adapt it from the feedback of our customers and their concerns so we'll modify and feedback that and then we will try and find ways to constantly look at executing more efficient processes you know what can we do right now to make this efficient. And AI is constantly on our mind, you know if we're doing something special, something that's quite laborious, you know, something that's quite long, long value think, oh this is a long task. Can we find a way to be able to execute this within AI? 

And typically, we can you know I've found some great ways to build out some of my LinkedIn content recently because sometimes I write all my own LinkedIn content. I never use AI for it but I found that I can use it in a different way, rather than being a creative way. I can have a creative structure, a bullet point, a structure, a story. And I say, right, how do I expand on this? How do I find new areas of what I'm talking about? 

So, say if it's like something fairly dull, like an Amazon error code, how do I explain that better? How do I make that information work on a creative level to make it more valuable to me and the people I'm writing for? So sometimes I'll use it for that. And I think that's probably a better way than just trying to rely on it, so, you know, so bluntly, so blankly and just press a button. And it's that whole thing people want to do is press a button to generate money for their business and don't want to look at the underside. You know, I think it's one of the biggest concerns. 

Paul Sonneveld
AI as a thought partner certainly helps you to build on your ideas. 

Chris Turton
Exactly. 

Paul Sonneveld
It's about the inputs, right? And then taking what it gives back, and then having another iteration, perhaps. 

Chris Turton
That's exactly it. I think people use it more as a supportive tool rather than it being a replacement tool. Because I feel like there's just an element of creativity. There's an element of process that gets lost. And there's this element that's not quite there yet, you know, in terms of how we execute everything we need to do for our clients. And it's probably the same in other industries. You know, there's a very great top level, but then is there a much bigger play that's being developed from, you know, years and years and years of how you execute data information for customers, you know, than, you know, than just kind of blankly relying on it. 

Paul Sonneveld
We're almost out of time, Chris. And we do have a couple of questions. Actually, I promised to get to Guy's question earlier. Apology, Guy, I haven't got around to it, but I will ask it now. This is also a cue for anyone else that's tuning in live. This is your time to ask questions. So pop them in the chat, and I will ask questions. Chris. But yeah, let's get Guy's question up here. So Guy asks, and thank you, Guy, for asking a question. It was great to have audience participation. I think a really realistic question. How do you communicate back to clients who see all the AI tools and talks about Rufus and Cosmo and requests we adopt accordingly ASAP due to some kind of fear of missing out? 

Chris Turton
Right. Yeah. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. That's a great question. I think it sounds like that's a realistic experience for many of us. So yeah. What, what, what is your response there, Chris? 

Chris Turton
Yeah, we've had a couple of times where people haven't been as deep as saying about Rufus and Cosmo, but they have before. You know, given us content that's been generated from ChatGPT or something like that. And we've had to make it quite clear as to, basically, in a similar conversation I'm having with you now, you know, it's a case of saying, I see what you're saying, but this is how we see it. And this is how we see it as a, you know, as a professional. And also just trying to reword. 

It's all about that whole customer expectation piece, isn't it? You know, that whole fear of missing out is, well, actually, you're not missing out because we're looking at this from a top-line data side. We're looking at this from a market share side. This is what we're seeing. This is what we're looking at in terms of your category, your BSR. We're not just going to be too opti-focused on saying, well, you know, am I showing up in Rufus? Let's, you know, let's kind of scale that back a little bit and see what that really looks like in a numbers perspective. You know, let's see how. 

And also because of the way we work, which is very different to some agencies and, you know, you'll know this, Paul, we clock what we do. We don't charge retainers or sales commission. So our value proposition is quite different to other people. So, you know, we'll be able to say to them that we're not going to spend six hours building something on Rufus. We'd rather spend six hours looking at your Pareto principle, eight to twenty rule conversion rate best sellers, because we know that we will execute more value for you there. So I would say it's all about trying to get that customer expectation and really making sure that people understand it's not just a case of trying to get your expertise into the subject as well, you know, and say, look, it's measured, but we know there's at the moment a little uptake in it. And that's why we are not heavily focused in that area. 

Paul Sonneveld
Good answer. Good answer. It looks like we're not getting in any further questions. So let me finish with my own question then, which is always the crystal ball question. If you could look five years ahead, what would you say about AI and the role of agencies and how things may evolve? Also, minus a hundred percent accuracy. 

Chris Turton
I think, you know, it's realistically that it's going to fit massively within the Amazon agency space, fully within the next two to three years. It's not going to be a more five-year down the line space. The problem we have now is that it's just that everyone's jumping on the bandwagon to find the value, but it doesn't match what there's need right now. But it will. It definitely will. It’s just a case of us really trying to be a bit more like arm out a little bit more, let's be a little bit more sensible in looking at what those results are, what customers need right now, what the execution is before we try and adapt to it? 

So, it's almost just like a bit more of a conservative approach, just a bit more of a you know whoa hang on a sec here, let's just make sure that that's there. I do think there's always going to be a space for people because the problem is, especially when we look at something like Amazon or e-commerce in general, there is a layer of complexity that is very difficult to quantify in just pure agentic, you know, agent-led data processes. And that is the complexities of things like brand and IP development as well. 

You know, there is a huge layer of things like, how a brand wants to present itself. How deep will AI go to be able to do that rather than that humanistic approach? And also, will people still feel they're getting the same value? Will it be that we've got some AI-led agencies, and we've seen this in the pay-per-click space, we've seen a hundred percent AI PPC tools. I have not heard any good words about them. They're very much cottoned off and then people just go we need to go back to humans. So, I think there's going to be this approach and then some that are going to go look we need to to move this apart. So I think that's definitely one one sort of very realistic possibility. 

The other could be that we do see what I mentioned before about this whole, the internet bubble of 98-99, when everything just kind of blew up. Everything was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. And then it all sort of erupts. Everyone loses a lot of money. And then we kind of start again with a bit of a different approach. That's also, I think, very realistic. I think everyone is so sort of driven on they buy this and everyone has an AI. So, you know, I get bombarded by things like this. 

But, you know, a really good point I find as well as on things like LinkedIn is the only people who are really, really talking about making a real difference are the people that run AI tools, you know, I don't see from brands, from sellers that say look, actually or from agencies this is really moving the needle for us. So it's an interesting one. I think there's a bit of, you know, where do we go from here? But for now, we'll just be looking at providing value. You know, we're still growing. We're growing twenty percent every year. Like I said, not once has a single seller said to us, you know, what does your AI stack look like? I want to know what that encompasses before I get involved with your business. That never happens because the values are not about AI. The values are all about return on investment and the value that we bring to them as an agency. 

Paul Sonneveld
That is a great summary to finish on, Chris. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your expertise. 

Chris Turton
No worries. Thank you for having me, Paul. 

Paul Sonneveld
As always, you're sharing your Canada perspective. Really refreshing to cut through the noise and really get back to, like you mentioned before, like what really drives client value? You drive client value, you probably don't have too many things to worry about. You don't have to lie awake at night about AI. 

Chris Turton
Exactly.

Paul Sonneveld
So thank you so much for the reminder there. So yeah, Chris, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for coming on the show today and until the next episode. All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Chris Turton
Thank you. Bye-bye. 

Paul Sonneveld
All right, everyone, for everyone listening live and contributing, thank you so much for your questions and engagement. If you found today's conversation helpful, don't forget you'll receive a full recording straight to your inbox. And if you are watching the replay, make sure you subscribe to Marketplace Masters so you don't miss out on future episode of our agency best practice series. Until next time, I'm Paul Sonneveld. Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you at the next session. Take care.