Exploiting Amazon Data to Support Decision Making (Part 1 - Profitability)

Paul Sonneveld
I'm your host Paul Soneveld and today we are going to learn how you can exploit Amazon Vendor data to support your decision making. Specifically, today, we're going to focus on vendor profitability. And to help us do this, you've already met him. I have invited Nick Turner to join us and share his expertise.

Nick is the co-founder of an Amazon agency called Boomd based in Poland and his team helps Amazon sellers and vendors from across Europe to grow their sales and reach new marketplaces in the UK, Europe, the US and Middle East. So he suddenly brings with him a broad range of experience to the conversation today. So again, for the second time Nick welcome on the show this time with audio.

Nick Turner
Yeah great. Alright, thank you very much for inviting me on, Paul and all credit to you for running these sessions giving some focus on vendors. There's a lot of material on Amazon for vendor but there’s very little actually in the public domain for agencies or vendors themselves to learn from others mistakes and help them be successful on the platform. So that's great and I think it's 10:00 for you there isn’t? So I think I'll be chilling by this time but

Paul Sonneveld
Great men and another coffee and, you know, I'm ready to go. I mean, I'm actually really passionate about this particular topic. I mean, as you mentioned before for sellers now, there's a lot of tools out there and even MerchantSpring would produce great insights when it comes to profitability with vendor, you know, less so in terms of tools, but even, you know, I think less of an understanding of how profitability really really works.

So, being a little bit of a numbers and analytical person deep down. I actually really look forward to getting into it. So maybe we can start with some of the basics in terms of can you just lay a little bit of the groundwork in terms of profitability when it comes to the Amazon Vendor model?

Nick Turner
Yeah well if you've got my first slide there but this discussion is very specific to vendors. There's a different set of parameters. How you would calculate profitability if you were on a seller platform entirely different actually. So that's why we focus this one on vendor. Because there's very little out there in terms of how a vendor might calculate it. I've tried to group things into three areas but I'll start with some rhetorical questions.

So if you're a vendor or an agency, Can you calculate your overall profitability on the vendor platform down to SKU level taking care into account all the different costs? What's your most profitable Marketplace? Again, taking all costs into account and Is that profitability seasonal? and how much profit have you lost you to chargebacks by product group or Marketplace?

And there's a lot to think about. Many of these costs If you're a large organization, have a B2B relationship with Amazon and some of these costs may come through into different parts of your ERP system, different cost centers and it's not always straightforward to aggregate that data to get a true picture of profitability through this channel. So that's what we’re going to try and do. If summarize the three areas the first is, is Cost of Goods and the Distribution. So really understanding, we got a slide for each of these understanding, what makes up that and what costs are involved.

Moving on to the Amazon terms, you’ll have a relationship a document that sets out the costs and the terms associated with your relationship with Amazon. And then marketing, something they're really trips some vendors up, how that relates to the cost price and at the end profitability. We got 30 minutes and a heck of a lot to cover.

Paul Sonneveld
I was going to say by the way, I love this slide. It's simple, right? It's really makes a lot of sense, is a great way to frame the conversation. But if only things were really that simple, right?

Nick Turner
Yeah.

Paul Sonneveld
There's a lot of detail here and I know, you know sort of pre-chat, we've sort of challenged each other to be really disciplined to not go too deep, because this could be a three-hour webinar. And obviously, we're bringing Nick back for all the webinars. So we’re going to try and give you a good overview of each of the components, but still there's a lot in there. So yeah. Why don't we start with the bottom Nick? COGS and Distribution.

Nick Turner
Yeah. Perfect. So the next slide sets out everything that vendor would consider. Now this is their bread and butter, right? They already understand to a great extent, what the cost for each of the items is. Each of their SKUs, for example, but this is a hugely the world has just transformed over the last two or three years since COVID. Nothing is certain anymore. I do chuckle sometimes I speak to some companies, some vendors say, Yeah, we're basing everything off a constant dollar rate and I think we'll nothing is constant in the world at the moment.

The currency fluctuation is just one example that can trip a lot of people up in terms of the input cost. So you look at the disruption in supply chain. Inflation is rampant in many countries at the moment. It doesn't look like it's going to be decreasing, distribution costs, heavy energy costs which affects pretty much every aspect of the supply chain is increasing. Then we go round and this isn't supposed to be an exhaustive list, by the way. But it's all the things that you would consider when trying to develop a cost price that you would present to Amazon as part of this profitability equation.

But things like storage costs. Certain Have to be kept at certain humidity or a certain temperature. Again, there's storage costs are increasing. The preparation of items and before anything even gets to an Amazon fulfillment center, there's certain things that have to be certain products have to be packaged in certain ways and then distributed and make sure that you have a good distribution partner to get the products to the right place on time.

So we're not going to go into too much detail on that. There's a lot of factors involved. We work with a lot of vendors on how to actually categorize all of those costs and make sure they haven't missed anything because nobody wants a nasty surprise. And there's lots of little nasty surprises on the way, if you haven't thought through this whole process. So, that really covers the first part, which is just, you know, understanding the cost and then getting the products to an Amazon fulfillment center. So we can start this B2B relationship.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. That's what I mean. In some of these elements in considerations very similar for all the channels as well. I would add to that. Certainly, if you're a seller in the UK, currency is probably playing a big role in terms of your bank account right now and vice versa in the US were probably the other way around you know, certainly seen a lot of volatility around exchange rates as well. So I know it was this will be hedged in all of that.

Nick Turner
But you know, the U.S. dollars, the home for money in the world as it is now as it always has been. And so this is having a huge impact on every other currency in the world. And again, that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. US interest rates are still going up. They haven't controlled inflation or of other countries and so we can expect more disruption. One thing to note this different with Amazon and that the reason I put this in here is you know, with some channels you would have a cost price. And that would be the end of it. You know, exactly what your profitability is, but there are further costs through the relationship with Amazon that you need to take account of. So this isn't the only thing you need to worry about and we'll go on to that next.

So as a vendor, you will have agreed some terms with Amazon and that will set out how your relationship will work in terms of B2B. And we've set out some examples here of some Amazon would call terms. Now, this will have a huge impact potentially on profitability. Some of them are terms and some of them are costs. That might be a surprise, to some vendors and that we've got a separate breakout just on the whole topic of chargebacks and this isn't a session on chargebacks but I do give some examples to elaborate and to help explain the point.

But attention to detail here is absolutely critical. Now, if you're a vendor for example, and maybe you've recently started at your company, you may well have inherited a contract with Amazon and you might not be fully familiar with all of the terms that your company has agreed with Amazon. So I would urge you to take some time to go through the contract to look at each term. Do some research to people like us to help you understand each of these areas and make sure you aren't going to get any nasty surprises as cost come along. So maybe you could just zoom that in a little bit for me, Paul. So I can read it.

The first one I just start the top left that AVS. So this is a dedicated support, It's vendor support for vendor. This is somebody on the inside in Amazon, that's essentially oiling the wheels to help you exploit every opportunity to its maximum within Amazon. But of course, it comes at a cost and potentially quite a significant cost but some of the larger vendors have that and it's hugely valuable. Some of the other things are based on the percentage of net receipts.

So you know, their scale with your sales but things like Freight Allowance more to the U.S. Damage Allowance that's a percentage it's usually based as a calculated as an average of returns and disposal costs per sector that you're selling in. So Amazon will work out a damaged allowance. Subscribe and save. So you know, people are subscribing to the to one of your products as they buy it regularly. Then there's a percentage there they can save and that's funded by the vendor.

This Co-op activities. Now, this captures a lot of people out because one of the opponents of Co-op is what's called Automated Marketing or Marketing Development Funds and vendors that are new to the program. Well, probably rightly assume that that covers marketing, like, it might do another other channels and they get a very nasty surprise when they realize they've actually got to fund advertising and deals and promotions as well on top of that.

Now, in Amazon's defense, this is terms of the coop activities, this is
funding the whole world of Amazon. So it's bringing people customers potential customers to the platform. It's helping surface listings on other channels. You know, Google, Facebook and everywhere else that Amazon has partnerships with. So it's creating the environment for vendors to be successful on. So this is valuable but it's just crucially important that people don't mistake that that there are additional costs on top.

And then there's things like return rights that can be done. A bit of a surprise for people. Some vendors can leave the stock at Amazon. Amazon doesn't have return rights in some cases they do. So if a stock or product isn't selling very well and some might choose to exercise that right and send the stock back and that might be a surprise for people. So again, it's critical that people understand all of these areas take the time to look in detail at what the percentage is, but also model that in terms of their profitability. It might be arranged because Amazon may or may not exercise or you may not have to spend these cost, but you certainly should account for them in your profitability model.

Paul Sonneveld
And I just want to get a sense from you Nick, Of all these additional expenses, which ones are more or fixed and sort of agreed annually and you can really predict it and budget for it. Which ones are variable. Then we'll go up and down with the level of activity that you do with Amazon.

Nick Turner
Well, assuming you don't, you know, you meet your obligations in terms of delivering things on time and packaging and so on. Most of these are knowable and you can and it will scale with your sales and so you can build a percentage in on net receipts and that's a pretty good way. You know, obviously you'll reconcile that each week, each month, each quarter each year, whatever your timeframes are to make sure that you're tracking and the more frequently the better.

But most of the scalable, the thing and the reason I've put the line around chargebacks and we've got a separate slide will make the move to in a moment is that, that is the one that's unpredictable. It's in your control but only if you know what it is you're controlling. So maybe we dive into that one next.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, it's a big topic. Lots of people would. Yeah, let's go through it. And I've already got a lot of questions and I promise you to only ask you a maximum of two questions on this, by the way.

Nick Turner
Yeah, it's just yet with a difficult one, right? So this is a big topic. It's a topic in its own, right? We've got a team of people at Boomd that really know the ins and outs of all of this because it's different for different markets. But I've tried to set it at the top there we put a like a timeline. or a flow in a sense of the things that you would do with your relationship, B2B relationship with Amazon and where you might start to pick up some of these chargebacks.

So, we'll start off with the PO process, you know, this is Amazon saying, we'd like to order a certain amount of products from you. Now, you might happily go ahead and accept that order for a volume of X number of SKUs, not realizing that you might not have all of the stock to meet that demand. Now, that's a serious issue because, you know, if you haven't correctly linked up to your supply and demand, forecasting.

If you haven't got a really mature ability to actually track demand and feed that through into supply and forecasts that out for X number of months into the future. Then you potentially at risk of accepting orders that you then have to backtrack on and not are not, not be able to deliver. But then we go through to the preparation. So, you know, Amazon’s placed an order, there's a shipping window, you get ready to actually dispatch those products. You have to make sure that they are prepared properly. Amazon rightly expect things to be done properly.

Let's just step from Amazon's perspective for a moment. Amazon's whole thing here is to delight their customers. They've got an ultra-refined process, procedures, automation underpinning their platform that delivers that service. And so, you know, it has to work like clockwork. It's a well-oiled machine is beautifully orchestrated, it's an incredible operation and if anything puts a fly in the ointment there and you know, things are done incorrectly, then it's going to require manual intervention to fix it or some rework. And what does that mean? It means cost and if that if those issues are a result of the vendor doing something wrong, then those costs are going to be passed on to the vendor and that's essentially what a chargeback is.

So it is critical that vendors understand everything about the you know, how that preparation should be done and how things should be delivered and why they you know why things have to be done on time. That's the reason and then so we go through Logistics and transportation, things can go wrong there and then on to the receiving side, when Amazon gets the items and checks them.

So maybe we'll give some examples just to elaborate on that. Certain products might need to be double sealed for example, because they may be liquids that leak and Amazon's putting them in certain bins to help on them leaking, on the product from some other vendor below. That's going to cause damage, not only to your products but somebody else's. So it's perfectly reasonable. And if you don't meet the requirements that have been set out for the packaging of your products, then you are
going to get a chargeback.

Now, a lot of these chargebacks can individually be quite small, it could be 50 cents, it could be 50, it could be, you know, a few Euros, few dollars, whatever. But the point is, it's per product item, per time it happens, per Marketplace. And you know, what? This stuff really adds up, it can be very significant, although it's sort of here, there and everywhere. If you don't aggregate this and keep a control of it, it could be a disaster in terms of profitability.

Things like palette preparation you know, you’ll have agreed certain minimum order quantities for particular product lines. So you need to make sure the palette is and that, by the way, that's another point in terms of profitability. You'll have negotiated Mo queues and that might not fit very nicely with the way that you distribute products to other channels. But anyway, that's what you've agreed. So, you need to meet that requirement terms of labeling, the labeling of the pallets, the barcodes on the products. Everything needs to be done properly.

Attention to detail is absolutely critical through everything here. These aren't just things that Amazon charges you because it fancies there, this is something that's putting a fly in the ointment that's damaging the whole process and you shouldn't do it. And so you need to understand why it's happened. And the most important thing is to make sure it doesn't happen again. So to learn from that, to change your processes communicate with whoever's involved in supply chain to make sure these things don't happen.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. It sounds like Amazon is geared up to run a very efficient well oiled machine and anything that's going to interfere at that, these are all little hindrances that will drive additional cost and complexity into their operations. So I think there's apart of what you're saying is there's just a cost recovery aspect to that.

I was going to ask him and bring the slide back up around the, you know, there's a revenue piece here as well right? Particularly around, you know, not accepting orders or not labeling things being rejected, being sent back, you know, ultimately it just means fewer of your items end up in Amazon's Warehouse, right? There's a correct me if I’m wrong, but it feels like there's an opportunity cost in terms of lost ship COGS here potentially too.

Nick Turner
Absolutely. I mean until you know the extent of the problem, you could certainly estimate it. If you knew what the problem if extent of the problem was, I mean, here's another great example, we look at the misdelivery window there. So, you know, when Amazon places an order, they will give a shipping window. So they'll say, okay, we're placing it in September, we want the items delivered in the first week of November. So you better had meet that window and it better be the correct number of items that you put on the palette at the time.

Now, if it arrives the wrong time of the day or the next day, there you'll get a certain chargeback. If it doesn't turn up at all for some reason, because there's been some issue in communication with the transportation, then that's quite a significant chargeback. And so that there is absolutely a lost opportunity there.

As I come back to this point about supply and demand forecasting, it's important you try and anticipate what orders Amazon might be placing upon you. Looking at not just the sales in but the sales out. So you can see the velocity and which product start to pick up. They'll be certain seasonality. You might want to take account of for certain products when you can quite clearly anticipate. And so that you don't end up rejecting or part accepting orders where you might have had the opportunity to do some much more.

So And then I put this random checks in here. So obviously, they'll be people in the Amazon team, who are making sure that things have arrived correctly and you know, you might have sort of got away with it for a few months or a year of not labeling things or not double bagging them or whatever. And then suddenly someone picks up something. And from then on, the requirement is to do those things. But you need to be ready. You need to adapt. Be ready to adapt and listen to what Amazon’s saying and change things. So, none of this is like setting in stone. You don't have a contract says from now on,this is how you do things. Things change. And so you have to be aware of that. So that was just an example.

It's not supposed to be exhaustive, I'm sure lots of people listening here there’s loads and it's missed off, but in principle these are where you'll get hit with these things. Now you can challenge them, of course. So these aren't set in stone, you can raise a claim. There's a certain amount of time, you don't have long to do it. So you need to be vigilant.

And in terms of watching out for these chargebacks, you need to raise a claim. Clearly with as much paperwork and documentary evidence as you possibly can. That could be documented could be photographs as it's to do with packaging, anything and the right to claim, it can take up to 90 days or so, for this to be, you know, to be decided upon. So, you know, once you've incurred the cost you lumped with that and you'll end up having to do retrospective to put things, right? So it's best not to get it wrong in the first place. Right first time or certainly don't make the mistake twice

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. Can I ask Nick just sorting the context of Q4, right? It's peak trading having spent many years in retail myself. I know this is the time of the year where supply chain teams are under enormous pressure, and a lot of the you know I'm sure a lot of the clients you deal with Amazon is one channel but they're also balancing whether it be department stores or grocery retailers. Everyone is pulling at them for stock competing priorities and all that. At this sort of Silly Season, let's call it that. From at least from a supply chain point of view. I think they're all looking forward to January. Kind of how do you talk to your clients about the need to prioritize Amazon vendor or how do you balance the supply chain requirements of your Amazon vendor Channel, amongst the rest? And it seemed like an impossible question, but I'd love to sort of hear your thoughts on that.

Nick Turner
Well, we have this conversation with many vendors who are selling on multiple platforms through bricks and mortar and multiple online channels also at the same time. And it comes down to the accuracy of forecasting. It's not as simple as that. It's a complex area. But you know, there is data available, you know, in tools, like yours that can give a very clear indication of the velocity of sales. So you can see down to the SKU level, which products are starting to accelerate.

The vendor and we immerse ourselves in the businesses that we work with. In terms of understanding the products really, getting a detailed understanding of the seasonality of them. We work very closely with the supply and demand teams are in the companies that we work with. So it's just constant communication but forecasting’s key and forecasting well in advance which is super difficult, isn't it? Because you know if someone's saying in in July or August, what's the demand going to be for November and December? Well, you know you've got some historical data hopefully to look back at. But they got competing demands there. So are we going to support this this Amazon demand and how confident are we in that demand? Or are we going to support this other e-commerce Channel or this other bricks and mortar.

That's got a really super big order for us and, you know, the terms might be different. We haven't, they'll be risks associated with these Channel. We might get that stock return. We might not get it returned from there. So those I can't give you an answer in the set. But I can tell you all the things that you'd have to consider. Accurate as accurate forecasting as you can based on historical data. Understanding the terms so that you can put a risk associated and maybe a range is also a good thing. So a high medium low forecast and then that, you know, that gives people the information they need and confidence to say, well, you know, we can put that much stock through to Amazon and we're confident that most of it would sell.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, it's a challenging time of the year. It's really hard to. It all comes down to preparation using the day that you've got, which sounds like the title of the webinar, right?

Nick Turner
There's no substitute for data analysis. You can't guess at this stuff.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah and the good thing is, you know, At least on the Amazon vendors side. Now, you know, there is actually more infinitely more data but certainly compared to say last year. You know, Amazon is investing finally on the Amazon vendor site and you can actually get some really good data and some great history to now.

Nick Turner
Exactly the aggregation across country marketplaces is more challenging, but it's, but it's very good. It's much better than it was. I think we got just to be conscious of time Paul.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, we're going to move on to the whole marketing aspect. This is a live show with people throwing live questions. And we got a couple. Let's just throw it in because it's sort of quite topical here. It comes from Adis. “Do you think Amazon will introduce some form of IPI score or matrix like they do for sellers?” Right? Obviously, they've big focus for them there. You know, where do you think? I guess there's a broader question as well, which is, you know, where do you think Amazon's mindset is in terms of giving more visibility to reduce address issues proactively?

Nick Turner
Well, let's just step back a moment. A couple of things on this. First is on seller, you're selling stock. So you're putting stock into a fulfillment center. That's your choice. How much stock to put in up to, and based on the IPI limits in terms of storage. Now Amazon is, we've already talked about the storage cost, haven't we? In terms of just how astronomical that is and the costs increasing.

Amazon's got to balance the amount of space that uses it fulfillment centers for its own Amazon sales versus the party. So 1P vs 3P. So there's a whole balance there. But really, you can already see a stock Health indicator on vendor. So you can also, see how long the stock has been and obviously, if Amazon are looking at the units on hand per SKU. As soon as that gets over a certain number of weeks, they're going to stop ordering from you. So it's sort of a balancing equation there. But on vendor Amazon's place in the orders but you know, if they sent to you much, they might send it back. I don't see that for the moment but I think the very different platforms in terms of how that would work.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, thanks Nick. Okay we do have one more big topic to address. You know, were not going in a lot of depth but I think a lot of vendors don't give due consideration to this at least up front before they go into the channel. So let's switch to our the third component, which is marketing.

Nick Turner
Yeah, and just back to just what we said, that vendor thing on the stock, it just helps you focus, which products you should be marketing but just let's just focus for a moment on this. Your role as vendors to help create the demand. I think some vendors don't quite appreciate that, It's critical.

Think of it as a big pipe Amazon's ordering from you and product is flowing into that pipe. And hopefully going out the other end to Consumers from their platform. Now, if you don't have enough customers buying and there isn't the demand there, the pipes going to fill up and you can't get any more in and the orders will dry up. So it is absolutely critical for vendors to pay a lot of attention to everything to do with marketing. That's advertising. We put some ideas here deals, lightning hero deals and so on. Vouchers, price promotions and you expected to fund these and is in your interest to get the products moving. The products moving means they improve in organic ranking, it means they hopefully get good reviews and it's a virtuous circle.

So, your advertising performance starts to improve. And then of course, you get more purchase orders for the items that are moving well. So it's absolutely critical. There's a lot of tension. Now, the other thing to notice here, a lot of vendors, and they get the marketing coming through, sometimes it can be netted off, sometimes it goes off to different cost centers. You have different cost coming through from different marketplaces and it's not all aggregated in the same place. As sometimes they don't even compare the two. Maybe until the end of the year, but this is absolutely critical. All of these areas are critical to include in your overall profitability analysis of Amazon as a B2B partner.

So it is critical and I said measure there at the end I should have put it in bulb, make sure it's everything. Make sure you understand all of the costs and you can even go down to SKU level. So you could do SKU product group Marketplace and you can see what attributable costs there are for each of those categories.

Paul Sonneveld
I was going to ask about the marketing packages on this slide because I think some of the others certainly coming from more of a seller type environment, look familiar and I think intuitively kind of know what they mean but marketing packages is something that's probably a bit more unique to the Amazon vendor seller. Can you give some examples of that like practically to how does how does it work?

Nick Turner
It could be big. I mean it's following people around on Amazon, but it's Big Branded Headlines. For example, there's some very specific. There's a few different types of packages you can buy into in terms of where the advertising is going to appear, how frequently, audience targeting. There's some really fantastic stuff in there in terms of the capability you've got with the vendor you know. If you've got an AVS and they’ll support you, people like us can support you in terms of how you might spend money in that area to give you good results. It's very much top of funnel. So in terms of, you know, if you’re looking at pipeline looking at audience, getting you to brand people to your products, that's really important. Competing against other people having your adverts appear in different ways and different forms on the platform. So really good stuff there.

Paul Sonneveld
Thank you. We've covered a lot of ground.

Nick Turner
Yeah.

Paul Sonneveld
If you just add up the sort of little boxes including the chargebacks. You probably get to at least 25 different components that you need to think about as a vendor. So, it's a complex piece. It's no wonder that there are people like Boomd and yourself out there Nick. Really helping vendors work through this. We are at the 35 minute mark. We certainly not sticking to our agreed timelines, but I'm okay with that. It would be great. You know, we've gone pretty wide, if you could sort of just bring it on all back together for us.

Nick Turner
Yeah. You pop that last slide up for me. We have covered an awful lot here. Hopefully, it makes sense and we haven't been exhausted in terms of all of the elements of the cost. But I think if you think in these three areas of cost, you really will get pretty close. Now, obviously you're setting a cost price with Amazon and you do need to make sure that you've got some profit at the end of that. Once you've taken fully taken account of the cost of your goods, which clearly isn't a fixed thing, the cost of your goods three months ago, six months ago was going to be different now. So, whatever equation you were using before, won't necessarily apply. You've taken account of all of the terms and potential chargebacks that you might incur on the Amazon platform.

Some of that is in your control. So chargebacks absolutely can be addressed either it's by challenging ones that have happened already. But most importantly changing your processes to make sure you don't incur them. And then marketing, critical to get momentum going on your products to feed the wheel so you start getting more purchase orders through. After all of that at SKU level hopefully you've got some profit left and it's a great platform for you but that's it in a nutshell. Paul, hopefully that's been useful for the people listening, and if there's any questions they've got, we are very happy to help.

Pau Sonneveld
Yeah, I was going to say that actually I'm we are out of time and I will hit you up some other questions may be offline. First of all, let me thank you Nick for coming on the show today. It's been one of the clearest articulation of all the different elements and how they fit together and going from like the broad buckets to the smaller ones and really understanding what drives each of them. Certainly the best presentation I've seen so far. So thank you very much for making a complex topic. I wouldn't necessarily say simple, but digestible. I really, really appreciate that. Now you already mentioned before, but I always ask for those vendors that are watching. There are interested in exploring your services, What is the best way to get in touch?

Nick Turner
There's another slide. I think that we've got a LinkedIn page. You’ll see our details on there and we have our website, boomd.pl. So love to come and follow our LinkedIn page and we'd love to hear from people. We've got a great team and always loved learning about new businesses. So give us a ring.

Paul Sonneveld
Thank you so much, Nick. And I just want to say to our viewers. If you do have further comments, there was a couple of others we didn't get around to him. I'm sure Nick is happy to hang around in the comments section and provide some pointers along the way. So feel free to provide some further comments there. But for now that is a wrap. Thank you very much, Nick. We're doing a few more together so I look forward to those. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Nick Turner
Pleasure. Nice to meet you, Cheers!

Paul Sonneveld
All right well that is it for today's episode of Marketplace Masters. Thank you as always, very much for listening. If you want to know more about MerchantSpring about all the various content, we put together for vendors and for agencies go visit us at merchantspring.io till next time. Bye bye.