Systematizing Operations for High-Quality Service Consistency

Paul Sonneveld

I'm your host Paul Sonneveld and today we're going to explore just that how to systematize your Amazon operations to ensure high-quality work and thereby happy clients and agency profitability all the time. Now I have invited Anton Kimfors to join me for this topic today. He's currently offered to share his valuable expertise and perspectives on how to actually do this.

Now allow me to introduce him. Anton is the founder and CEO of Sellwave. A full-service agency, completely focused on Amazon. He helps Swedish companies reach out and succeed on Amazon, both in Europe and elsewhere. Anton has been selling on Amazon itself since 2015 and in 2017, actually started his agency, Sellwave. He also runs a Facebook group. That was on FBA Sweden, which is Sweden's largest group for Amazon sellers with over 3000 members. And it's on a very warm welcome to you. And it's fantastic to have you on the show today.

Anton Kimfors
Yeah, I mean, my pleasure. Super happy to be here and share anything I can to help other agencies succeed with systemizing their operations and in the end, scaling their operations to the next level.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, that's,  I know this topic is so important because a lot of agencies will start out sort of as like consultants and they're managing all the clients themselves and, sort of skill, client service skills and knowledge helps a lot, but then growth from there can be really hard and it's really easy to lose clients in the process. So before we dive into the topic, I just wanted to ask you, what got you thinking about this particular topic? And why is it a passion of yours?

Anton Kimfors
Yeah, I mean, it's a real-life experience I had when I was doing probably my first pitch for a really big company. So, as you begin your journey, whatever company when you begin your journey, you usually have smaller clients. But then suddenly I had opportunity to pitch for this huge company in Sweden and they had another agency already doing their Amazon operations. And we won the deal. And, you know, we had this handover from the other company and I realized that this big company, they haven't really built any system for their Amazon operations. They have basically hired someone that says I can do Amazon. And during the handover, it was clear to me that they have miserably failed like everything, for example, the PPC was horrible. 

And that was when I realized that, hey, I want to scale this company, but if I should scale it has to be done some other way. It can't be done just by hiring people and then letting them handle things. So, we have to systemize things to be able to assure high quality. And that's of course beneficial for both the clients and for ourselves, since we could then deliver high quality and over time charge more money, et cetera.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. And it's, uh, you can't build a business on trying to hire like superstars that can do everything. They tend to be rather expensive and super hard to find as well. So much better off systematizing things. 

Anton Kimfors
Right.

Paul Sonneveld
So, yeah, let's talk about that like what are the benefits? So like why as an agency,
should I be thinking about this?

Anton Kimfors
Right. So, I think for you viewing this live, I prepared a few slides and I have with me, yes, to clearly show things, but I will go through it. Then I think there are a lot of benefits for me as a business owner, I think it's just giving me some calmness to be knowing that I have a system for this and I don't have to figure out things over and over again.

But if you look at like the main benefits for the agency and even for the clients. I think the first one is increased efficiency. Definitely. When you have a system, everyone knows what to do at what time efficiently efficiency dramatically increases when that's the case. And, you know, every company wants to have an increased efficiency in their operations. It's no matter if you're the agency or if you're Amazon seller yourself. 

And moving on, I think what I mentioned here with the case I had before, when I pitched for a big company, consistent quality to be able to say to every client that I meet that, hey, we will be able to deliver on this and I don't have to worry about who is doing what or what team I'm giving this party to. We have a system for it and that system assures quality.

And for me as a business owner or an agency owner, I mean, it assures scalability. And that's the case also for Amazon sellers. It's not only for agencies when you can do things in a systematic way and hit the same results over and over, you can scale it. So for example, if you are a US seller and you want to be selling in EU or in Australia or Japan, if you have a scalable system for it, it makes it so much, so much easier. 

I also I think this is quite overlooked, but I think it enhanced the strategic focus when you are, especially for agency, I would say, because when you are an agency, you tend to just say yes to everyone, no matter what a client is, is asking for Julia, say yes, because you want that business. And you also want to help your client succeed. But when you have a systematic way of working, it should also be clear exactly what you're doing. And that makes it so much easier for you to put focus on the strategy and also have more focus on the business overall, because you do, you do exactly what you say and nothing else. And that's huge power for you as a company. 

And maybe something else that's often overlooked for, especially for agencies. You know, we have a lot of people, you work maybe for example, with us, we work a lot with employees, but also with freelancers and being able to manage those human resources. It takes a lot of time and it's usually quite hard to understand who's doing what and what cost is it and what do we make on this? And, you know, what's reasonable to do in the different products. 

When we have a system for it, it's so much easier to plan those resources and see who's overworked maybe, or who's doing too, too little of performance or work. It makes it just so much easier, everything basically. But I think these are the main things that we have really improved in our company since we started to improve the systems. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, that's a great outline and particularly some of the things that I hadn't thought about, like the strategic focus, I remember many years ago when we still run an agency, I tend to be a bit of a people pleaser. So I'd like to just be busy and tick boxes and at a personal level, it just satisfies me. But a lot of those things, you know, looking back now, weren't necessarily in that sort of strategic and urgent priority matrix. They're more sort of probably 

Anton Kimfors
Right. 

Paul Sonneveld
Urgent but just ticking boxes, not actually moving the business forward. So yeah, some really great insights. 

Anton Kimfors
And I think it's okay  to actually say yes to things, but you should, when you have a system for it, it makes it so much more clear how much that costs you. So for example, if you have a big, let's say our company, we have a few clients that are bigger than the other clients, I would say. And it's, it's not like the wrong thing to do to say yes, but you should be aware of the cost of it. And then you can also, you know, charge for it. 

So let's say you have like someone that wants these super complicated reports or whatever. Okay, fine. We'll do it. But that will cost like this much more because we have to do this and this. And then you're at least aware of like all the costs, all the resources and what you actually make from it. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So yeah, how do you get started? How do you actually systematize your operations? Because I think probably very few viewers that sort of would disagree with the logic, right? But getting started is sometimes the hard bit. I mean, how did you start or how do you recommend get into this?

Anton Kimfors
I mean, so let's, I'll go through the building stones of what I think is needed and then I can go into how you actually do it or how we have done it at least. So, when it comes to the building stones, I mean, it's, and this is very common, but it's so important then it's often overlooked and you have to know what has to be done, who is doing it or doing it at this time and why they are doing it. If you can't say why someone is doing something, it's hard to motivate people. And it's hard to know why you are even doing it in your own workflow and then when you're doing it. 

So, those are the four W’s, but then you also have to, if you want to scale business and actually do it efficiently, you have to know exactly how to do it. I think it's very  often, for example, this big pitch I talked about before. I'm quite sure. The people in their team knew who to do what and when they should do it, but they didn't really know how to, for example, optimize their PPC or how to upload new products to Amazon efficiently. So all those four W's plus the H, I think it's super important. That's the basis for everything when it comes to scaling things. 

But then if you actually move on to the next part, I think it's the different parts of bills, the company, right? So if you look at these four W’s and H, the W’s, you have to know not only at each task level. So let's say we have a product management system and every task. Tasks should clearly say what is done, who should do it, when should it be done, etc. Based not only on the task level, it's at the company level as well. So if you look at what we're doing, you have to look at your offerings as a company. 

And we as a company, we have four main services and that's what we offer. We offer nothing else. And that's what we are doing as a company. So, that has to be super clear and it should also be super clear for the client. Okay. I'm buying whatever from this company or this agency, and it should be super clear what you're getting. I think a mistake from our company before was that we offered a full-service offer. And a lot of people took it, but it wasn't really clear what was included. And they requested things because they thought it was included, but we thought it wasn't. Has to be super clear for both you and your clients. And this is of course also true for Amazon sellers. You have to be super clear with what are you doing in-house? What are you putting on freelancers or other agencies, etc? So, you know your areas of action and what you actually should systemize internally.

Then I think it comes to the who the teams and the roles. You have a team and you build a team. But it has to be clear who has what responsibility. And I think a lot of times you miss the accountability. It has to be clear who's accountable for what numbers, what KPIs, not only responsible for tracking, measuring, working on it. But if, you know, shit hits the fan, who is accountable for the issue? I think that is something that's often overlooked. And when you are not accountable, you don't really take pride in things. You might not add those tasks to your product management system that you need, et cetera. So it has to be super clear. 

And when it comes to more the system of it, I think the workflow system is a crucial part and also a part that's very easy to implement. So, there is no good reason for not having it. Of course it takes some time to do it, but it should be implemented. And when I talk about the workflow system, I talking about the system you use for your internal team. So for example, if you talk about software companies, maybe you are better at this ball, but, I mean, scrum is a quite common methodology to work with agile development. But you should have those types of workflows also for ecommerce. It doesn't matter if you're an agency or if you're a company, you should have clear workflow. Everyone knows the steps, you know, the weeks you have for implementation and reviewing, et cetera, has to be super clear. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, that's that makes sense. And actually, I want to throw in a question from Susanna here. I think she's based in Denmark the last time I spoke to her, but thank you for joining us. Susanna, just a very practical question. I have the same one. Do you use a project management project management system? I was even going to say, do you use a like a workflow system? Is there a particular glue that you use you know, particularly around responsibilities, tasks, accountability and the like?

Anton Kimfors
Right. So for product management, we use ClickUp. I think it is a great tool. I think especially, I mean, especially for an agency, I think that's amazing. We have used other tools before that I won't mention because I wouldn't recommend them, but I think ClickUp is a great tool and that it's basically because it's so customizable.

And I think as long as you come up with your workflow, either by copying someone else, for example, just like copying scrum, or if you build something more custom to you, you can make it happen in ClickUp, which I think is great. But I know also there are a lot of other great tools. Asana I think is a great tool. And I know a few more that I forgot the name about now, but yeah, I think I would recommend ClickUp from, from my experience. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, it certainly seems to be certainly as I talk to our customers, it's kind of ClickUp, Asana, monday.com every now and then. And I'm sure there's other great, great tools out there.

Anton Kimfors
Yeah. And now, since you mentioned, maybe I just want to highlight, we used monday before actually monday.com. But we found it quite troubling in a lot of cases. So, if you haven't decided on a system would definitely go with ClickUp over Monday, just because of the functionality it's from my experience, it's much, much easier to customize. 

Paul Sonneveld
Just for the record, you're not an affiliate of ClickUp, right? This is unsolicited trial and error feedback here.

Anton Kimfors
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, I have nothing to win on it. And I mean, ClickUp has their issues as well, but I think overall it's just much better too.

Paul Sonneveld
No, that's great man. I appreciate your frankness and just maybe can take a few shortcuts building on your experience. S,o let's just go a little bit deeper, right? Because I think you, the framework is great. I love these slides, the context and sort of making sure that we cover all bases. But how do you actually assure like, you know, that high quality consistency as you, because you can sort of standardize operations, you have a process, but how do you ensure that the output is of high quality, like every time, all the time? 

Anton Kimfors
Yeah. And I think that actually ties quite well together with workflow system. So, we'll just jump the slide here. You have to have a few bullets for you who is looking at this live. So I mean, I will start now. I have a few other bullets here, but we'll start with the workflow system. I think it's super important to have a workflow system, but it's very important on how it's not only having it right. You have to actually building it around the quality because the quality is really what we are trying to assure here with the workflow system. Uh, 

So, I mean, you can do it so many ways, as mentioned, like scrum is one method and they have their own system for it. If you're using scrum, we have done it quite easy because we want to be agile, but still assure high quality. So we have built a three step process basically. Everyone in a team can add new tasks to our workflow, and that's important. It's very important that everyone is accountable for their own KPIs. You can't have, like, someone being accountable for everything. Everyone has to take accountability for their own KPIs, their own work. 

So everyone can add a task to a workflow system, and they add it typically to the backlog. And then we have a process there when we have a team lead going through the items in the backlog. And it's looking through every task assuring that this is something that we actually want to do because they have a better overview of the whole project and they also can look at, do we actually have all these, you know, four W's and H as we talked about before, is it clear who's doing it? Is it clear when it should be done? How it should be done, et cetera. So that's the assuring that we actually work on what should be worked on. 

And then on the other side of it, when the work has been done, we have a team approval step where we have, the team lead again, looking through the work that's been done. And yes, assuring that the quality is what we need is what the client need in our case. That's super important for us because, you know, we don't want to deliver any work that we are not proud of. 

We have to have some, some type of quality assurance before the approval of the client and then if the team approves, depending on task, we'll also then ask the client for approval. So it's a two step approval. And that's also I think it's something our clients appreciate because previously we only did the work and then we sent it to the client. And I mean. 50 percent of the time the client would have something they didn't really like. 

But now when we have this step, we, I think we have went down to probably like 10, 5 percent somewhere there. And, we also can assure the client that, hey, you don't like, please look at this, but yes, you know, we also have a Senior Team Lead that already looked through and it looks, you know, good. I think that builds a lot of trust and they can see every time that we actually do deliver on the work.

Paul Sonneveld
So you actually have a workflow that ends up in a client’s, I'm assuming inbox or another portal and there's a physical approval. So you've got an electronic like record of they have actually approved it. It's not hey, you know, calling, are you happy with it? It's a physical yes or no type of situation. 

Anton Kimfors
Yeah. And then usually we, depending on the client, because I mean, just be honest, our clients, they are off very different sizes. Like some of them are more like startups. Some of them are turning a hundred million plus per year. It's a big difference. So some of them we do like, we just send an email because that's how they want to do it. Some of them, they only want to do it through meetings. It's important for us that we just have the step. So they approve it in some way and they know that they actually can approve it before we go live with things or whatever. The way we do it is a bit different, but I think it's just important to have the steps or nothing just is slipping through the system and just go out there without the client knowing.

Paul Sonneveld
And is there a time dimension to that as well? And obviously, you're looking at the output quality. Is there a measure around your turnaround time or how quickly you give something back to a client? How do you tackle that topic?

Anton Kimfors
Yeah, I mean, definitely there is. So, we always track the time and both the time that we spend. That's more for us. So we know that we don't lose money on our tasks. We have to have an estimated time spent on each task. Then we'll also have the due date on every task. And we can then assure that, of course, some, sometimes okay, task will be late, because of usually it's because of issues with Amazon. But we always have a due date and we follow up on that and as soon as something is closing into the due date and we're not done, we get both warnings from ClickUp. So that's something that you can create either through ClickUp on its own or SAP or make.com et cetera. Those tools. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah.

Anton Kimfors
But we also then have always in the team, we always have a process owner, and the process owner is accountable for those types of issues when things are not done, when the team is not collaborating, when someone is missing an answer, etc. So we have different systems for reviewing tasks that are risking to be off due date or either risk it or if we actually, if it happens, reach a case where we are off their due date and we haven't delivered, then it's, yeah, you know, something we really have to take care of fast.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, that makes sense. So we've talked about kind of process standardization. But what about the people that work for you? I mean, how do you standardize roles? How do you tackle the whole people aspect of this? 

Anton Kimfors
Yeah. So I think that's the big second part of it. Right. So. One is the quality assurance and one is the people standard. You have to have a super good people standard. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if you have, you know, the best S. O. P. S. Etcetera for equality standard. If you don't have people that can follow them, it doesn't matter. 

Uh, so I think this should be, I mean, now we've talked a lot about the system, but this is the most important thing. If you look at the whole system, so we always have, and this is something we missed for a long time. So I'm super happy that we are building those systems now, but I'm sad that we didn't have it from the start. We always have a very clear onboarding process with training immediately.

So that's also much easier to do when you have clear rules. When we onboard a new PPC specialist, we have the onboarding. And we teach them, for example, our different tools that we use, our systems, our quality standard system. It has to be super clear for it to work. And that also then ties in again to the roles.

Everyone should be, they are, they know exactly what their KPIs are. What they are accountable for the responsibilities, et cetera. So everything ties together and it's super important. Of course, a big part of this is the hiring process. I must admit, I definitely don't feel that I'm the best at the hiring process. But again, we have to have it systemized. So again, when you have roles. It's much easier to create those job posts. It's so much easier to understand who is a good fit. When you look at the different accountabilities, et cetera. 

So building everything together and connecting it to the quality standard, I think that's something that's for me, I'm not, in no sense the hiring process expert, but when I have the quote standard, it makes it so much easier to also at least deliver. Okay on that. 

And then just being very honest, especially when it comes to freelancers, if you're not able to deliver on our quote standard, you can't be part of the team. That's like the quality standard for me, that's the no first binary choice a freelancer has to make or an employee has to make. Am I actually following this? If not, I can't be part of this team. And that has to be super clear. And you can't have any cases where you know, uh, have people not following the standard, then you lose everything.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, for sure. Um, and it becomes very objective, right? I'd love to sort of talk about people. And by the way, I've made lots of hiring mistakes over the years. I'm probably in the same boat as you, I guess, every time you learn a little bit. 

Anton Kimfors
Yeah.

Paul Sonneveld
But if you go back to like, you know, when you started your agency and maybe you're making like your first hire versus like how you think about hiring now, um, you know, particularly as you grow larger, as you need to people sort of need to adhere to a process and structure, how's that change, your hiring approach, or at least maybe like the characteristics that you look for in a person as you consider hiring them?

Anton Kimfors
I think maybe if, I mean, a lot of things, of course, but if I'm just looking at the most important things, I would say it has to be like explicit agreements and looking at facts and not opinions. So let me start with the first one. When I hire someone before, in the beginning, it was only like freelancers, VAs, et cetera. But I think it's the same case for no matter if you're a freelancer and what role, et cetera, it has to be very clear exactly what you expect. And it has to be very clear for the one taking the work, what is expected from them. 

Before, I think  I asked, waited for them to deliver. And I didn't really say when I wasn't happy with the work or when I expected something more, but as soon as you have those explicit agreements on the expectations, I think it becomes so much easier to work together. And to actually look at the work they perform in a clear way. It's much easier than to talk about the actual work and not about them as a person, like focusing on the actual work and not how they are not performing.

If the job is not good enough, it's not good enough. Uh, and that has to be clear for everyone. And you have to expect. For example, they have to expect me to actually tell them because otherwise it's hard to build trust and actually prove the performance over time. And then I think that then ties together to the thing with facts over opinions, when you actually look at the KPIs and when you look at the facts or the agreements already agreed on. It's so much easier to then say, Hey, did you reach this? No. Yes. Uh, not. I feel I reach it. It shouldn't be a field question. It has to be facts. Of course, like I very much feel empathy for people, et cetera. It's not about that. 

You should still be able to talk about how you feel about the projects or opinions, but when you actually look at the performance, did you actually follow a code standard? Yes. No, that's binary. Did you come in time to the meeting? Yes. No. I mean, those things has to be just fact based and I don't think especially if you're building a systemized probably also a digital company, it has to be like that. It can't be built on opinions or subjective thoughts. It's not possible. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, it's I think what you're almost saying is by having systems processes and thereby expectations that are super clear actually people management becomes a little bit easier in a way. You're not dealing with grace. You're not dealing with opinions, different interpretations.

Anton Kimfors
Yeah, I think I mean, I think that's been why we're focusing so much on it. I think everything becomes easier. Having people, it becomes easier for them to deliver work. It becomes easier for me as the company owner to review work, etc. It becomes easier to pitch for new clients, because it's very clear what we're doing and what we're not doing. And it's the clarity becomes a huge, huge power or value in the company, uh, both internally and externally. 

Paul Sonneveld
Now that actually makes sense. Now I do want to get it to a little bit of the kind of the other side of this, right? Because if we were to sort of leave the show here now, people would think, well, you know, great advice from Anton.
He started as a small agency and he's just built our processes and structures and he's just, everything has been humming along. It's grown, but I'm sure there've been some painful learnings along the way, some what I would like to call like speed bumps. 

Anton Kimfors
Right.

Paul Sonneveld
What are some of the biggest challenges? And I'm actually plagiarizing this question from Susanna, who's asked a great one. You know, what are some of the biggest challenges that you've encountered as well as you've gone through this kind of transformation implementation capability building exercise? 

Anton Kimfors
And just to be honest, there are challenges every day. It's having systems doesn't make all the issues disappear. It just makes it easier. But definitely, there are a lot of problems always and having a system, I think just makes it easier to solve those issues. But I think one of the main things with building systems is, there are the benefits, but there are also the issues or problems with then changing the systems quickly. So if you have no system, you can tomorrow say, no, this is our new system. But if you have systems where you have, for example, different Google sheets connected, you are maybe having them connected to your ClickUp tools and you will that we had Sapir. I mean, it becomes a bit more like a bigger company when you want to change things, it takes time and you have to move multiple pieces in order to move one piece. So I think that has been important. 

On the other hand, having the system actually makes it easier to change that thing quickly in the whole company. If you are a lot of people and you want to change something, you have to have a lot of training sessions, et cetera. But here it's more technically something that you have to change. I think that has been like one of the, and that's something that doesn't disappear, right? It's there. All the time.

If I want to change something, I have to understand how is that also affecting the whole system. I can't change only, for example, how we do our keyword research because that might also then affect PPC or or copywriting, maybe how we deliver things to the clients, et cetera. So, so more, more thought work, but in then I think, I still think it's overall a positive outcome.

Paul Sonneveld
Thank you. Fantastic. Well, we're out of time, but I'm going to throw two more questions at you. One is the last one from Susanna here. We've already spoken about the first part of a question, but the second part I think is a really good one. Are there any, let's call it like experts, systematizing gurus or books or podcasts that in this particular topic, that has really inspired you have helped you along in your journey, any recommendations in that field?

Anton Kimfors
I would probably, I mean, this is just my opinion and, now maybe it's weird since I'm sitting here talking about systems, but I would probably try to move away from people and look more at if you're actually building a system, look at different systems out there. We already mentioned scrum, for example. I think like looking at systems and, scrum it's not ran by one person. It's a movement. And those movements or and of course there are books on it as well. So you can pick up a book, but I think it's better to follow that because it's based on the actual system. It's people like it because of the system, not because there is an influencer that's very good of a talker or a good presenter that's pushing the system. 

Other than that, I unfortunately I don't have the name, but I know a lot of people on, for example, YouTube, and they usually have their own courses that could help you with actually implementation of the system. But I think you still have to decide on the different systems that you want to build on.  I know there is one, one woman on YouTube. I think she's fantastic with ClickUp. I think her company is called like process driven or something like that. It will probably be quite easy to find on YouTube. 

But there are a lot of fantastic people just sharing how to build things on YouTube or on the blogs, but I wouldn't follow like one person for the whole system. I think that's, I think it's easy to build in yourself into a place where you are just copying someone else and you're not optimizing for your own operations or your own needs. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. That's good build. It's almost like look at different things, trying to pick up the things that are useful to you that challenge you and that allow you to push your business forward. So yeah.

Anton Kimfors
Yeah. And take like one step at a time. You don't have to build everything in one day. Take one step, make something easier, and then you have more time to build the next thing. So, I think that's the way to go. 

Paul Sonneveld
Perfect. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today, Anton. I love just sharing your experience of your journey, how are you thinking about doing that? You know, keep in mind that I know what it's like running an agency, particularly early days. Like, there's hardly ever any time in the day to even think about these things. So, it requires real discipline as well. So I really appreciate you sharing that. For those that are tuning in, maybe live or watching our on-demand episode later, to get a hold of you, maybe they want to talk more about this topic or maybe to talk about your services. What's the best way to get in touch with you? 

Anton Kimfors
I mean, first and foremost, my pleasure. It's, really nice to be able to be here and connect to both you, of course, and to everyone else that wants to talk about Amazon and maybe specifically then how to systemize operations, never be afraid for reaching out and yeah reaching out. You find me easiest if you just send me an email at anton@sellwave.com or .se if you're in Sweden. 

And currently I think, unfortunately we have not launched our new website yet, but we have a website coming up for our international visitors in just a few days here. So, sellwave. com is probably also somewhere you can go if you look at this a few days after the recording.

Paul Sonneveld
That's fantastic. Thank you so much Anton. Really appreciate it.

Anton Kimfors
Thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot. 

Paul Sonneveld
All right, everyone. That is it for this episode of Marketplace Masters. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you found today's episode on Amazon operations and really how you scale it and how you systematize it as a particularly as a small agency moving to a medium-sized agency. Hope you found that useful. 

Now, if you're hungry for more, don't forget to visit our video-on-demand library on our website. Just go to merchantspring.io and there's a menu item there, resources> on-demand library, you'll find a treasure trove of other videos, insights and blogs. And of course, if you are aiming to streamline your operations and particularly analytics components and client reporting to gain some sharper insights and save some time, make sure you reach out to MerchantSpring or reach out to me and I would love to show you what our product can do for you.

Lastly, of course, I am all ears for what you would like to hear next. I'm actually on a bit of a mission to lock in speakers and topics for the next quarter and the one after. So if you've got great suggestions, either in terms of topics or speakers, please drop me a note on LinkedIn and I'd love to follow that up. Until then, next time, keep thriving, keep innovating, and thank you so much for listening. Take care.