Understanding Chargebacks and Operations

Paul Sonneveld
I'm your host Paul Sonneveld and today we are going over the keys to achieving operational best practice, the Amazon vendor platform and how do you set yourself up for success especially when it comes to keeping chargebacks at a minimum. 

Now, to help me do this. I've invited Chris Khoo to join us and share his expertise. Chris is the Sales Director of KhooCommerce Limited, a UK-based software development company firmly focused on helping companies sell to Amazon. Chris has been with KhooCommerce since 2019, so brings with him a broad range of experience to the conversation today. Thank you for being on the show today, Chris.

Chris Khoo
It’s a pleasure to be here, Paul. nice to meet everyone.

Paul Sonneveld
Look, I've been looking forward to this session for a while because when it comes to Amazon vendor chargebacks and processes are such a big, big topic. But before we get into the specifics here Chris, let's start at the top. Set the scene for us, Seller versus Vendor and then, what are chargebacks? Just layman's terms, paint a picture for us. 

Chris Khoo
Yeah. So, I'm sure many people in the chat will already know the difference between seller and vendor. So, forgive me if this is going over well-trodden ground, but Seller, Central is essentially the marketplace model of Amazon and Vendor Central is when you wholesale to Amazon. 

So, the main difference is who owns the product. In Seller Central, you own the product through and through from start to finish. It's yours, whether you fulfill it, or Amazon fulfills it through FBA, It's still your product. With Vendor Central, it's a classic Retail or wholesale relationship where you are selling the product to Amazon and then they are retailing it himself. So commonly on a listing you'll see sold by and fulfilled by Amazon. Whereas for a 3P listing, you might say sold by company ABC but fulfilled by Amazon that's using the FBA model. So I go straight into chargebacks as well, Paul? 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. Well actually, before we do that, I want to ask you one other question Chris, which is I know you like you and I've chatted   times and I know you are super passionate about operations, right? Not everyone. Most people are super passionate about Amazon A+ content or driving down your TACOS. You're actually super passionate about operations. Why are you so passionate about it? 

Chris Khoo
I'm glad you asked Paul. It's almost like we planned this question. It's just my favorite topic. Everyone, if you go out there on the market, everyone will talk about marketing or talk about driving sales. They'll talk about boosting your optimization of the listing, getting your ACOS down. Things like that, everyone talks about this, you can find, you know, many, many brilliant companies out there that will help you deal that. But operational challenges for me is really like the nuts and bolts of actually delivering those sales, taking them from you to Amazon. And it's often in that process that they can be big in efficiencies, big frustrations, time problems. If you talk to your employees were actually doing this process, they might kind of hate Amazon.

So you know there are people who love Amazon. They're the ones making the money going all. Yeah we've got, you know, it's six figures, seven figures and then you've got the people actually doing the account management, doing the warehousing.  Now, they'll hate Amazon and my joy and my job is to try and help these people not to hate Amazon so much. Make it a channel that you can scale and grow and often you'll have an account which is like 100K. Let's grow to 500K, but you also have to consider. What does that mean for you in the back office? What does that mean for your teams and so on? And that's what we get to. I really like making that stuff.

Paul Sonneveld
Awesome. So yeah, let's go back to charges and chargebacks what are they Chris and what are the different types? 

Chris Khoo
Yeah, again a very well-trodden ground topic. Thought many people on the call here, I know will already be very familiar with these. Chargebacks are essentially a catch-all term for any kind of non-compliance, when it comes to Amazon's, that can be from order management, shipment management, packaging, invoicing anything where you deviate from their standards in any kind of way, Amazon will charge you for it. Typically either a fixed flat fee like 10, 12, 15 pounds per unit in the case of labeling mismatches, or they’ll charge you a percentage of the items that you shipped which can actually be really, really bad for your margin.

Not the need to say that to anyone here but it's you know they'll say you have a tolerance limit. Maybe you have to hit 90 percent over the next, the last training for weeks. And if you dip below that, then we'll start to charge you 3%, 6%, 9% of the ship value of the goods that you were non-compliant with, in some way. So, an example would be, they asked you to ship a border between this window Monday to Sunday and they actually arrived the Monday after, and they'll say, okay, you were a few days late on that shipment, we're going to charge you for the value of items that were in that shipment that arrive late. And if you're sent, you know, if that PO was 10,000 50,000 pounds and you're taking three percent of that, 300 pounds or 1,500 pounds respectively, that adds up very quickly over the year and over the months. So these charges can roll into the tens of thousands sometimes, hundreds of thousands for companies depending on the scale of their app and it comes to some of Amazon 

Paul Sonneveld
I've just put a put a slide up here where, we have some of the different ones, there's a range of charges here, you've picked up some specific ones here. Can you talk about that those a little bit more? 

Chris Khoo
Yes, this here on the screen, is just a screencap from vendor central and you'll be familiar with it. It's under operational performance inside the vendor Central portal in Amazon. And they give them lots of different names. So you'll be able to see charge card information, compliance ASN accuracy, invoice accuracy,  various different things. And there are things that they kind of, have different solutions of different problems. 

So for example, you've got a packaging problem, I need to review, if you need to bubble wrap or bag your product, if you've got on time problem, you need to review admin processes that help with that and there is no kind of one-size-fits-all fix for all chargebacks because you have to go into each one. Identify the course of it. Work through their teams, what's causing it and do the best things that you can to ameliorate and mitigate those issues. 

So, the ones that I've start here on screen, the ones that we are mainly focused on, so PO-On time accuracy, middle of the top and ASN accuracy also middle and a information compliance some of the big ones and also not listed here as actually shortage claims. So it's going to be some of the biggest issues that people experience a shortage claims which I'll come on to you later. Some people count chargebacks to include shortage claims but shortages is any kind of discrepancy between I shipped 100 units Amazon claims we received 95 units, and there's that shortage claim of 5 units, which is often a dispute point between the vendor and Amazon. And that is often also one of the biggest drains on margin because you maybe only make money on the last 20 items that you ship. So to lose 5, out of 20 of them is a big, big drop in profitability view. 

Paul Sonneveld
So I know one of the areas that you really specialize in and very passionate about is labeling. How is labeling relate to some of those charges were just talking about now? 

Chris Khoo
Yes. So labeling is not immediately the most glamorous topics you can jump in with. I mean, people kind of think, you know why we talked about labeling, but there are two main reasons. One is to do with the operational process on your sites, do with how you actually get the goods out the door and into Amazon’s warehouse, often making the ASN and packing the boxes and getting the labels on them, getting that to Amazon. That can be not only a very time-consuming process, but it also could be filled with error. Potential human issues in efficiency and these are the things which can contribute to shortages and issues when they're being in bounded and received to Amazon. So there's the process aspect of it to it to actually how the items are packed, how the picking is done, how the Box are created. And then there's a technical aspect to do with rather not using the Amazon labels, they called the AMZNCC labels and or if you're using SSCC or License Place Receive which I'll come on to in a moment. If you look on the left, you'll see AMZNCC label, pretty classic most people on the call will be familiar with labels that look like this and then on the right it's an example of SSCC label, Very, very similar, just some differences but typically the SSCC label the right, the main difference is you're using a GS1 compliant code so that's actually a GS1 unique code. Also you're usually sending that through an EDI connection for your ASN whereas the label on the left, the AMZNCC will sending through the manual, through Vendor Central. 

I got some stats on this in detail, which I don't want to run on the too far ahead Paul. But essentially, we've tried A/B testing these accounts and we generally find that the SSCC labels are received much more efficiently by Amazon, radio reducing the levels of shortage clients that people are experiencing and it's not actually technically about difficult to implement. So this just some of the benefits of doing the switchover, becoming more compliant, tightening up those processes and tightening up the technical that help to inbound better with Amazon. 

Paul Sonneveld 
I was looking for it as you were talking but I think this is the slide you were talking about. It might just be worth pausing because you know, some of these are certainly worth talking about because there's a big price of these. You want to take us through some of these?

Chris Khoo
Yeah, so this is not a shortage playing, this is zooming in on one particular compliance chargeback type. The carton information compliance. It was one of the ones that was started on the previous slide, and you'll be familiar with a graph like this as well. In Amazon, it's just got time along the x-axis and defect rate up the Y. And that is when we started working with a company that red dotted line straight down the middle. 

When we did the switch over from what they were doing with the AMZNCC switched it over to SSCC, and it's a pretty dramatic graph. This here is not the worst chargeback you can experience probably in the region of hundreds of pounds per month, not the Serbian thousands or tens of thousands but for carton information compliance, if there's anyone out there suffering with this, we'd love to help you because this one is a very quick fix in terms of time saved. Yeah, it's a type of mark graph, it's kind of a bit of a  no-brainer and if anyone is experiencing this into the hundreds or thousands of pounds per month, then it's going to be very cost-efficient for you to investigate the use of SSCC. 

Yeah, I think it's talking about efficient receive, is the next stage. So I mentioned, two aspects, ne is the process and one is the technical if you're not familiar with the term, efficient receive essentially it's the ability for Amazon to scan the outside of the box and then they call it officially receive every single item inside of it with one scan. If that process fails, they have to open the box up. Take each item out and scan them, one by one and this is very common. You'll see you know, you ship 100 units. We should five books of 2010 and then you go to the Amazon PO and it says, how many they've met ordered? 100 accepted 100. How many of their received 98 only if they receive 93 or something like that? There's a slight difference and that is usually happening. When they have to open up the box lift each item out and scan it.

And there's an introduction of human error actually at the Amazon fulfillment center because there was something went wrong with the label. So, when they can scan the outside of the box, that's called efficient receive. And when they have to open it up and left it out each receive. Somewhat confusingly both with the acronym ER, but the benefit we're really aiming for is the official receive. 

We did some work with a customer. We did a switch from using AMZNCC to SSCC and then we asked Amazon what is that efficient receiver on this account? So that top line there, where it says 1 ER with the red circles highlighted, we saw a period of eight months training with an 85% officially received ratio and then we ran the experiment using SSCC in EDI of that went up to 97% efficiently received goods. Which is such a huge increase in the account. It doesn't mean it's perfect. I mean you could like nice of center is not 100%  but for me going from 85 all the way up to 97% inbound officially received was a really big one. And the period of time for this is 8 months, either side of the change and it was a reasonably big account. It was about 730,000 items or 19,000 cartons. So I would say it's a pretty significant set of data points that that reflects the changeover. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, I think that's the thing. We tend to forget, we just look at it little percentages and there's a couple of percentage points here in these with I think we remember, these are across huge, huge volumes in foremost most vendors. So there's a very large really such lies as big size of the price here. Specifically. 

Chris Khoo
Yeah. So what this, what this reflects Paul is its reduction in chance for error. So it doesn't necessarily mean the shortages were 15%, another shortages at 3%, it's more like that potential for error existed on 15% of their shipments and now their potential for error only exists or 3% of their shipments. 

Now, me being me, I'm always still driving on. How can I get that three percent down to zero? Because that's just the way I am. But I have to take a step back and say, well, actually, you know, 85% is okay, but 97% is really good. And when you're dealing with a big company, that's probably doing 7,8, figure business in Amazon, if you can say, we're going to take you from 85 to 97% and it's going to be something reasonably quick when we can look at, then they're going to say yep, that sounds really great.

This isn't necessarily true for every company that we work with because where they start, and where they end is, obviously going to be different for each one, there might be other operational systemic challenges that the company is facing which mean that it's not just a case of changing a technical process and changing the inside of the warehouse. Maybe they need to review the way they package their boxes, or we need to review the way that they are sizing them, or something like that. But it is a case of a good example of how switching to SSCC implementing EDI has really helped transform, the inbound received great of that particular company. 

Paul Sonneveld
Well, that's huge. What about GTINs? Can we talk about GTINs receiving as well? Where does that fit in? 

Chris Khoo
Yeah. So a slight zoom out there are three main options that companies have AMZNCC, SSCC, GTIN receive and these are three main options that people have you can optionally also for not sending labels. But I wouldn't recommend this because they're just going to charge you. And, of course, we've talked about AMZNCC and SSCC. The third option is what's called GTIN receive. GTIN receive is mainly suitable for food and drink vendors. Usually, not always but typically, and it has the main benefit the number one, big man benefit of GTIN receive, is you don't need to attach carton labels to each carton the only label of a part. If you're still doing a small parcel shipment, you still need to attach the ASN label to each box of where you see the product label.

And for this to work, you have to synchronize in what your GTINs are straight into a machine. And so that they are using the barcode that's just printed on the outside of the cardboard box. So you're not applying a label to the box you're just using the UPC or the G10 that’s printed usually on the cardboard of the box you are sending in typically suitable when you're sending in pure fixed pack cartons. So if you're sending 6s, 24s,144s and so on G10 receive is brilliant. 

Or if you're doing each’s, when they are sending a whole microwave and you've got 23 of them or24 of them on the pallet, you just put them on the block and ship our part in really good for that. It's very not good for anything where you have a mixed carton. So if you have a box which contains three of this and two of that, you really don't want to be, just would never work. You get chargebacks through the roof. You have to use SSCC or the AMZNCC method. But as we discussed, I wouldn't recommend that I would recommend using SSCC.

Paul Sonneveld
That's great, Chris. while we're deep into the topic, just a reminder that this is a live show and we'd love to hear your questions. So if you have questions, make sure you put them in the LinkedIn comments section and we will actually get them automatically and will try and answer as many as possible. Now we've probably done a bad job of that in the past but today we're going to try even harder than before. So make sure you post those questions.  So while we're I think for people to post some questions, Chris let's talk a little bit about warehouse process. How warehouse processes in fact, this whole topic that we've been talking about. 

Chris Khoo
Yeah. So the bit we've talked about so far, has been the technical aspects, so which technical operation work, which process you're going to use inbound to Amazon. The thing I want  to talk about next is more the physical process getting stuck into Amazon. So you have people that are picking stuff up, packing it, writing it down and turn it into Amazon. Packing those goods and then shipping it to an Amazon fulfillment center. That is often a source of problems too. So, I would say not only is it a time sink but it's also a potential source of error. So, if you've got your own Warehouse, I would really recommend going through and it's not so much auditing who's making the mistake and why we getting problems? And you must be doing something wrong. We're really looking at. Actually, how does our process work? Is there any way that we could be improving this? Is there any place in which this could be causing a problem? then we could maybe Changing the process of fixing.

So very commonly, I'm talking to people that have piles and piles of paperwork. They have a pick list for one order and a pick list for next order and someone has to write this was box one or box 2, this is books 3. And then they have to take all that and then give it to someone else who has to spend hours and hours and hours keying into Amazon which not only is slow and it's pretty boring but it's very inefficient and it could cause errors. So you've got potential issues there. Now, that's if you got your own warehouse and if you got a 3P Warehouse, if you're using a third-party warehouse company, you want to have a discussion with them. Hey how does the process work? How are things report electronically? Do you mind if we come in and have a chat and just check that it's all compliant with Amazon? If you want if you want to diffuse the conversation just blame it on Amazon. Just say, look, it's not us trying to be awkward, we just want to check and Amazon introduced as late as compliant thing. 

We just got to come and check it out if that okay and can look at it and critically you want to understand, are they charging you for that? Because often, a 3P company will say, hey, it's taken us six hours to go in and fulfill this, if we're shipping to any other retailer, we can get it done in half an hour, but whenever we want Amazon web to do it, takes us ages because we have all these extra headaches. And check out, are they charging for that? Because if they are, then it might make a lot of sense to considering other alternate, ways of doing that process that can help speed that up. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. So I was going to ask you as you know, you work with a lot of clients in this space, as you work with them, what are some of the indicators that you look at or some of the data that you look at to quickly form a view whether as leakage or pick and pack issues on the actual, on the vendor side. What is there if you had two full sort of form a hypothesis? What is the first data point or report that you like to look at?

Chris Khoo
The first thing, obviously is just talking of people, like I like to chat to there's usually like an Amazon Account Manager, there's someone who does the orders, someone who does the shipments, some at Warehouse, just have a quick chat. Are you enjoying it? Is it going well? What do you think about? Then, the chargeback dashboard is the number one place to go. And then also your operational services and issues there. 

So, you want to be looking at particularly purchase order on time accuracy, cost information compliance and then the levels of shortage claims. Between those three things. You get a quite a good feel of where a company is at in there. Overall picture of how challenging situations and you also want to try and view in proportion to the main account. If you've got 10 million in sales and your chargebacks are down like the ten, fifteen, twenty thousand pounds a year level, it's something you can improve upon but generally I'd say that's pretty good. But if you're doing a hundred thousand a year and your issues are twenty, fifteen thousand then that's terrible. Because that's 15%, 20% of your issues, just being lost through an efficiency. 

Do you want to try and consider all things in proportion as well? So, it's a bit of a discussion with people and then it's just looking at raw data and raw numbers and trying to understand. Okay, actually, how big of a business priority is this for you? Is Amazon something you think will be investing in 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, five years, or are actually looking to scale down your operation. Because oftentimes people haven't actually really explored this side of things. There's one poor soul or poor souls usually assigned to dealing with it, but no one's really brought the table together to get on that conversation.

Paul Sonneveld
What about the, I mean we spoke about was think that the receiving process on Amazon, labeling, the Pick and Pack process in the warehouse, I guess there's also the topic of our broader up in processes. what do you observe as you talk to your clients? Can you speak a bit to that in terms of the opportunity too. 

Chris Khoo
Yes. So one ofthe other really big chargebacks that people have is purchase order on time accuracy and one of those chargeback types is the down confirmation charge. So if you have an order and then you cancel it late in the day, you get charged for the amount that you cancel, typically, 3% of their monthly dues.  So any kind of process that you have where it's taking the orders and then readjusting them another late date. And if you're doing that too late or being managed and inefficiently or someone goes on holiday and all of a sudden, they're on vacation, so guess what something got forgotten about? It's a 10,000-pound order, but didn't get cancelled, but we knew it had to be canceled. Guess what? You know, being charged three percent of that 10,000 pounds because of just an admin hiccup. And again, it comes back to things can be slow and they can be inefficient, but they can also really introduce sources of error. So you could have systems that can help, you keep track of your orders, you have an ERP system probably with how orders are progressing through the flowchart and through the journey. And you can also have a system to make sure that orders get cancelled off or they get rejected when they get something done with them because that can be reducing your orders. 

Sometimes what I work through with people is this flowchart where we kind of try to identify, what's the process of the you're working through, when it comes to processing the orders. It looks a bit like this. Not 100%, always like this, but you work, down the status in the orders being raised, its being accepted, confirmed, when, who allocates the stock, who did the pick, when was the items packed, how they done? When will the labels printed, when was the shipment made? When was the invoice made? 

And it's not set in stone, but usually, that a kind of Monday morning, Wednesday morning for the beginning bit. Then there's the Tuesday afternoon, Thursday afternoon for shipping bit. And it helps to have the conversation of actually, how much time are we spending on each aspect of this? So if so, if you want to download this, there's a link that I can put it in the chat as well. Very welcome to download a little process sheet that helps you step through that process identify pain points and review actually, is there a chunk of time which is taking way too long? What it should be. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. That's great Chris. and thank you for putting this together, you know, for those Chris just mentioned it. We will put this in the comments straight when this recordings over, will email it out to you as well. So you can benefit from some of the material that Chris has put together here. It's super, super useful. Cool. Let's see where we need to start wrapping things up Chris, and I want to have a look at the questions in a sec. But what first question from me is really around, put yourself in the shoes of a relatively new Amazon vendor say, let's I've been supplying Amazon for say, 12 months, I'm fairly new to it very excited because Amazon is ordering my product. What sort of issues do you typically see after that first 12 months and what are the areas for improvement that tend to manifest themselves, amongst a lot of those cases? 

Chris Khoo
Yeah, I mean it's exciting time. If you've been involved in those vendor program, it's a really great opportunity for your business. Often sales will kind of start they'll spike as you do some palm fronds and they come down and then they have like a nice organic growth going forward which is really cool. Usually around the 12-month mark, like you're saying you start to hopefully you're hitting scaling problems. So you started, you've launched in UK, it's going to be a 6 figure, it's going to be a seven-figure business for us. We've really got a great opportunity and as it starts to grow things start to creek a little bit. We've got to hire more people. We've got a take on more people in the warehouse or it's Christmas. So we got Christmas coming up probably in a few months time.

In terms of the wholesale market, that's going to September, October, November is when you really start to experience that crash in the warehouse and got to take people on and people are doing many times they're all level and if you're a bit it's not so much naive but just miss already unaware of how Amazon works. All of a sudden you have orders just raining on you, which is great. But to actually get them out the door and get them out in time. It's going up, they can be enormously stressful. So if you don't mind me, sharing for one of the things we've developed for people, is this little dashboard. I know you're a man who loves dashboards. 

Paul Sonneveld
I love my dashboard, so that's true. And I love even what's even better than a dashboard is color coding on a dashboard. Even get more excited. 

Chris Khoo
This is one of our latest things, we've just come out. I don’t want, you know, it's super detailed, super nerdy. But essentially it looks at which items you've got coming up next in orders that are due very soon and helps identify which ones are at risk of having a chargeback associated with them.

So you can take action now to prevent a chargeback from occurring. So what you can see here, it's kind of small but you can see you've got which PR reference, which SKU gives it a waiting? What's the chance of this item going to be canceled. This is very likely hundred percent or so, and then it waits that attaches a value to it and says, here's the ones that you need to deal with next either, cancel them off or ship them or something. But there's a risk identified on this particular orders and it's sorted by just item and by purchase order sorted by just purchase order sorted just by item. 

To really help the warehouse identify which order should we do next they've got 50 orders to do. Which one should we do next? Well, So you need to do with the ones where you're going to have the most issues if you don't deal with them. So this is one of the cool features coming out that, which you can help to do. This isn't native to Amazon this is actually run through our platform, but it helps to identify which orders are about to have down confirmation chargebacks, which ones you should prioritize, and then which ones you can do next, to help save you that and often this will be a decision of saving 50 pound, save that each day, you know, save a couple hundred pounds each week and just have a tool which helps you prioritize and identify them proactively. 

Paul Sonneveld
Now, this is very exciting, there is a, it's good to fix problems, it's even better to prevent them from happening, right? So this is really excellent. Really excellent. No doubt. There is a lot of money tied up in or being able to save a lot of the spent here, just by acting on this dashboard. So I think that's really, really great insight Chris. Thank you for sharing that with us, we are out of time. I am having a look at the Q&A at the moment, and we've got a lot of comments, but very few questions. Actually. I do have one from James here. We both know James pretty well. And if you can see it, Chris. 

Chris Khoo
I can't. (laughs) 

Paul Sonneveld
He's asking if you have a fresh haircut, I was more commenting on your tan and how tan people are on the British Isles these days with the amazing summer. 

Chris Khoo
I think last time you had James on last time and I think he had just had a fresh haircut. So he's returning the compliment that I gave to him when he was on the same seat that I'm in now. But yeah. I actually, recently had a reasonably fresh change. Good observation. And I think 2, 3  last week. I just in the mirror, I'm still doing lockdown haircuts. That's probably way too personal to share on it business training video on Amazon but I still just find the bob is very awkward to go to. So I just like to just do it in the mirror. 

Paul Sonneveld
Cool. Well, Chris we are out of time. We've just crossed over the 30-minute mark, but before we completely wrap up, of course, I want to thank you for your time, every time we have on our guests and you've certainly risen to the occasion, just the generosity of which you are prepared to go to the detail, go to specifics, share your own proprietary content on this show. Thank you so much for doing that Chris. I really appreciate it. Now, I'm sure there are viewers that are watching us today or maybe watching the play back. There are exploring your services, for that, what is the best way to get in touch with you?

Chris Khoo 
Yeah. Hopefully my details will be either in the chat or somewhere on the screen. Do feel free to send me a message. That's my email on screen their chris@khoocommerce.com or you can go to our website, go to phone number on there. Just give me a call and we'll based in UK so, if you're going from abroad, just make sure you add +44 at the front or just the emails usually the best because time zones and everything. So yeah, but LinkedIn's also good thing. Ping me a message there. More than happy to help anyone if they’ve got particular questions on this topic. 

It's worth saying as well, that this is, this is one aspect of the traffic story. There are many agencies out there, which do you like reclaiming really, really good agencies that do things, which get back and recall, those back for you. And if you've done everything that I've spoken about stay, maybe you found a super frustrating to seeing. Yep, I've done all that. I've done all that. I've done all that. I've still got problems what next? Well, send me a message. I'll put you in touch with some people but still specialize in, basically going to Amazon and just fighting them on your behalf and they usually are no win no fee kind of service. So, they'll say, we'll take a cut of whatever, they get back for you this, how they work. So that's just to say, if you still have problems with it, it's been frustrating. And I empathize with you, I feel your frustration when it comes to that, but send me a message. And I'll see if I can connect you with someone who can help a bit more. 

Paul Sonneveld
Thank you very much Chris.  And that's it for today's episode of Marketplace Masters, thank you so much for tuning in. Don't forget to visit MerchantSpring to access exclusive offers only available to viewers of the show. Till next time, goodbye.

This episode is brought to you by MerchantSpring, vendor performance data at your fingertips, visit merchantspring.io for more information.