How to Build and Scale an Amazon Agency for the Long Term

Podcast transcript

Paul Sonneveld
Hey everyone, my name is Paul Sonneveld and welcome to another live episode of Marketplace Masters. So today's session really sits under our agency's best practice banner, and I am joined today by Hamish Conway, the founder and managing director of Sell Global, a full service Amazon agency. So the reason we're talking today is Hamish has just celebrated ten years in business. So we're going to talk about digging into the real lessons from that ten-year journey, how he built the agency, the key hires, the service expansions, the mistakes, the hard calls and the decisions that helped shape the business for the long term, including building our Amazon vendor as a core capability. 

It's going to be very practical conversations for agency owners who are really early in their journey and maybe thinking about seriously about what the next five to seven years could look like. So very practical perspective today. Hamish, thank you so much for joining us today. I know you've just made it over to Sydney from New Zealand, managed to avoid some bad weather patterns there. But it's great to have you with us today. 

Hamish Conway
Excellent. Thanks, Paul. Really appreciate it. And, you know, having watched a bunch of these, it's great to be here and in Sydney. Obviously, the Opera House may be there, but the Sydney Harbour Bridge behind me. Good to be here. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, Sydney's not a bad place to be today. I don't know if the weather's as nice as down here, but it's usually not so. Well, look, ten years is a long time, and I'm sure we could talk for days, but I have teed up a couple of questions, hopefully to try and extract as many kind of golden nuggets from you for our audience as possible. So why don't we start here? So let's look back at the really early days of Sell Global, right? Can you maybe share with us a little bit, what was your original vision for the agency and how has that evolved over the last ten years? 

Hamish Conway
Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Like ten years feels like it's gone by in a heartbeat. But how it originally began is I was selling on Amazon myself, and there was this Amazon amazing selling machine. I was like in the second group and that in 2013. And so I was selling on Amazon myself and the baby category and that started to go pretty well, and then we're selling into the UK and Europe. And so this was and like in the first full year we got to over a million dollars, and it was going pretty well and then some other brands like had a business partner on that, and he had some other investments and people started to go could you help us with our with our amazon strategy. 

And then and there was another person i kind of got into into it. So we figured out, well, let's just start an agency, given we've got enough people asking us about how this works. So it was almost like accidental. And I guess prior to this, I'd had a number of businesses myself for a long time, and all of them were service-based. So from marketing and sales to customer service, leadership training, even accounting firm. And so I had these kind of had the sort of skills of running a professional services business. And then that matched up with the skills of what I'd learnt, and selling on Amazon myself and doing a pretty good job of it. 

So the original vision, because I'm from New Zealand, and so originally it was about, well, let's help New Zealand companies export to America and the UK and Europe via the Amazon channel. And so that was the original vision. And like, can we really help a whole lot of companies do that out of New Zealand? So we started to do that, and that was i mean, that was actually quite hard like when you're helping a company like export. There's so many things that need to be covered off from compliance, etc., and  so that yeah, so that was kind of pretty full on but we started to get some good wins and we've got clients from those early days still with us which is pretty amazing. 

But then, you know, things started to change. Well, one of the things that changed after we'd started was Amazon Australia, late 2017 kicked in. It didn't really do much for a start. But obviously, the big change that happened that sort of shifted the vision a bit was when COVID happened. And in, you know, 2020, there was this like kind of rush of businesses going, can we sell on Amazon? So we got all, there was like government money being thrown at things. 

And so we were trying to help all these companies go, is it a good idea or not? And then, but what happened through that is Amazon Australia had big step change. And that was what really kind of triggered them in taking off. And so, and I could sort of sense that, you know, with COVID and just all that cash injection, and there was going to be some hurt at some point that like the, was going to come and it did, but we decided, right, we're going to really double down and focus on Australia and be the best Amazon specialist agency in Australia was our vision. 

And so we really shifted and got after it at that point. And it was it's sort of shifted from helping these more you know less known brands selling into America to helping known brands and so we go right well let's you know there's this when you have an agency there's this confidence point that you hit where you go actually no we do know what we're doing we're really good at this. So, let's just step up the game in terms of who we're helping and we got this opportunity with weber barbecues and so we helped them get set up on amazon actually in ebay as well, 

And then that kind of helped lead into working with Asahi Lifestyle Beverages, who were looking after Pepsi, Gatorade, Schweppes, etc. in Australia. And so then with that kind of shift in confidence and then getting these bigger clients and in Australia, that was kind of where our vision sort of shifted from where it began. Anyway, that's kind of a bit of the long backstory, but hopefully that makes sense.

Paul Sonneveld
I'm hearing sort of two shifts there. One was sort of geographical shift from like US to kind of, you know, more to Australia. But the other one also sort of like, you know, the shift in the profile of the clients that you're serving, right? Certainly, much bigger end of town. um can i just press a little bit further on that which is what what made you like in terms of the drivers behind that shift, how much of that was gee, Amazon US is just getting so hard from these small businesses out of new zealand or australia to try and launch there versus actually we just think we have this amazing opportunity here in Australia. Like we're so well-positioned. Like we can really like, so what was push versus pull in terms of the, and I'm sure it's a combination of a whole range of things, but what are the things that stood out to you most in terms of getting to that, you know, change in emphasis? 

Hamish Conway
Well, in reality, say, Amazon Australia kicked off and mostly it was people, the vendor team was out there just getting as many brands on board as quickly as they could and most brands were set up there poorly. They didn't know what they were doing and because the channel had been kind of small, it wasn't getting investment or attention. And we basically just saw that there was so we could help these brands so much and really quickly to get results. And there's something like it in an agency like you do want to have a fast cycle to getting results for the client as quickly as you can. 

And we found in Australia with these big brands that we could do that, like get really significant results quite quickly. You know, within two months, it's like you've changed the business. Compared to when you're helping a company that isn't yet on Amazon and trying to get them over into the States or the UK, for example, that is hard work and you're starting from zero and it's, you know, it's a long game and to keep them interested in it and usually the budgets would blow out because it was always more complex than what you think to get it set up and get it done. So it was kind of that was one of the that was kind of some of the factors there that we could just say this is an opportunity here that we can help these bigger brands just really raise their game on Amazon, because we knew what good looked like from the States. And most brands in Australia early days were not doing a good job. So that was really what we saw as the opportunity. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. That makes sense. Can I pick up on another point that you that you made? So I think your story around, you know, started, selling yourself and then turning to an agencies and people asking you to help and the like. That's quite a common story. Like, I mean, you know, I come across that story a lot, but perhaps what's a little different in your situation is your experience particularly in the professional services space you know, bringing those experiences, you know, to the party in terms of starting this agency business. I wanted to ask a follow-up question there, which was if you look back now, ten years from now, like you think about all the experiences you've had business-wise outside Amazon, which of those experiences do you think were most beneficial in helping you build the agency and getting you to where you are today? 

Hamish Conway
I think the... Look, honestly, a big part of it is selling, like the ability to really step into the shoes of your prospect and understand what is going on for them. And I think just the ability to actually sell professional services was probably the best skill that that transferred across. Because it was really, having a deep understanding, having to build rapport, build trust, and then convert that, convert that sale. That was probably the biggest skill, I think. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. It's a wonderful product, but if you can't sell it, uh, you know, it's business. Yeah. It's something that certainly resonates. Funny enough, when we started our business, I left other careers because I never want to get into a sales position. And some of my careers were sort of forcing me there. And then I started our own. You've got no choice. But it's easier to come up with a passion to sell as well if it's your own business because you really believe in, you know, you've made some really proactive choices about what you're doing, what you're selling and the like. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I want to talk to you about hiring, right? 

No doubt you have made lots of hires along the journey. And the profile of the person that you hired kind of evolves as this whole space evolves as you grow bigger. But looking back, what are some of the most important hires that you've made  in the first few years? Which ones you look back and go right that was absolutely the right hire or maybe conversely, like were there anything to say look actually we should have just made that hire we didn't and it delayed x by so many years or months or um you know what what hires would you make would you make if you were to start again?
 
Hamish Conway
Yeah. I mean, look, it's like when we started, it was a pretty niche area, particularly in this part of the world. So there wasn't a lot of people that had knowledge or experience and around Amazon. So that was kind of mostly my go to was like, where are these people? And some came from those that I'd helped get selling themselves with their own brands. And then there was a period there where there was quite a few communities off this whole Amazon FBA opportunity where people were doing private label and starting their own brands. 

And so my idea was to get into those communities and find those people that were doing that. And so they knew how Amazon worked because they were doing it for themselves. So that was really my hunting ground, you could say. So mostly I needed to, uh, like, I mean, the early hires were kind of around getting, um, like VA support on, on the Amazon side of things or on the Ads. But it very quickly hit a point where we needed senior people who could be client-facing and have really strong conversations with people. 

So that was the highs that I had to get to. And so that's where I went looking for those sort of people. It was initially some people I already knew, which was great. So there was that level of trust there already. And so that kind of really got us going. And I mean, so, and then, I mean, like, ten years on, we've got a team now of twenty-one. But as I look along the way, so I kept on kind of, if I found people like that, I would hire them in, sometimes even before it was a good idea to. 

And we sort of hit this point where we were too top-heavy, as it were. We had more senior people than support people. And that obviously made profitability a real challenge. And we were kind of at this, you know, I remember this point, because as you start to grow, it just requires a lot more coordination. For me, I managed to delegate or let go of a lot of the day-to-day operational on the accounts. You just have to, right? So that was there. And I had an operations manager and it was sort of going all right to a point, but as it started to get a bit bigger, that actually became a problem. And so there was sort of this disconnect or misalignment between myself and this operations manager. 

And so then it was kind of this really critical point that we had to know make a make a shift to to get alignment at a leadership level. And so this is you know it's kind of as you're making these kind of highs along the way with bigger you know where you're paying people properly like this is the scary part as a as an agency owner like you kind of got to back yourself that is this going to pay off. So, but yeah, so I was kind of dealing with this tricky, really tricky situation. 

I had to get external help to come in and help us navigate through that, you know, because it was pretty tenuous in terms of how it could have played out. But the upshot is, is we ended up getting, there was myself and now a current shareholder business partner, Seb, in the business who runs the ad side, like he came on and the senior leadership team, and so did Annika. And so then we had the three of us there at a leadership role. And between Annika and Seb, I knew the delivery side was fully under control. 

And that was like a massive shift because we did have this point where I couldn't sell anymore because the system would break. Like, literally, the operations were going, no, we can't take any more clients at the moment. and like as a person who enjoys like seeing growth and sales that was pretty tough and but that was a bit more like the tail was wagging the dog and so that had to really shift and then when that shifted then that was when we started to you know go to the next level after a bit of a period of of pain. 

I know i might have jumped around a little bit there but it's kind of a bit of the journey of like hiring early on and through to where it gets when that when things start to get bigger and a It kind of transitions. And then I guess with that, we then had to fix that ratio of senior to support. And particularly on the ad side, we've done a really good job of that. Seb's done a really good job in hiring. So we've got eleven of our team based in the Philippines and then ten between Australia and New Zealand. So we've kind of now got a better balance in the team. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no, that's really interesting. I mean, I think it just goes to show that the structure you start with or the team you start out with maybe in year one or year two is very unlikely to be the same structure in year five and year ten. And I think many, myself included, you know, you want to sort of hold on to the same structure and try to make it work and try to – but the reality is you have to evolve and you have to – always be thinking about like what's the next evolution you know of our structure going to look like right 

Hamish Conway
I mean kind of linked to that in a i was just thinking like one of the things in a agency like a you know still small business really is you i mean you, I think I've been lucky. I've hired really good people who are really trustworthy and who care. And so then they, I mean, there's kind of a double-edged sword. What's good about that is you know they're going to look after the client and do good work. What's not so good about that is it's really dependent on them. And rather than a system or operating system that so it can create a lot of stress for everyone even if they are doing a good job it's just feels a little bit tenuous until you get that operating system in play.

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, no. Absolutely. I wanted to ask about maybe some of the low moments. I'm sure, starting a business is not for the faint hearted. I think someone, when I started, someone gave me the really advice is like the highs are high and the lows are low. It's really like, it feels a bit like a roller coaster. I guess I want to talk about the topic of resilience, patience, persistence, all of that. To the extent that you're able to, what were some of the real low moments for you in the tenure journey? And as a founder of a business, how did you deal with that? How did you hang in there, keep going, motivate yourself? Because I think that's a very common topic, like with all the LinkedIn posts are all about crushing it and how successful it is, but you know that's just right um so you know how did you kind of you know what were some of those moments and how did you kind of uh deal with those?

Hamish Conway
Yeah. Because i'd had a lot of businesses before, and you know, you've sort of got that entrepreneurial spirit where you are at risk of looking at the next bright and shiny object right? And so there's it was like as you get a few years in, i mean out of the gate we did start to get some wins so that that really helped. I mean i guess you know the tough points are always around it could be missing out on or losing a client or missing out on winning a client that you think you should or the people side of things we've got really difficult people challenges or cash flow challenges that inevitably happen as you're trying to scale up and cash gets tight and you're going, shit, I hope this client pays today so then I can pay the team. So you've got all those tricky things there. 

I mean, that's kind of normal sort of early-stage stuff that you've got to deal with. I think then there's sort of times that, you are doing what you know is the right thing and it's good work. You've made some difficult decisions, and you're working hard on the marketing. But things like we had this period where things just didn't, revenue just didn't budge. If we won clients, we'd lose clients. And for like eight months, it was kind of plus or minus five thousand dollars a month. It was super frustrating. You're just like, what is going on here? And you're just in this kind of line of it's making money, but not as nowhere near as much as what it was, it should. 

And so I think through from a resilience point of view and like frustration point of view, for me is generally what it manifests as my frustration I'm like I'm competitive and I you know play just play a lot of sports or play some sport like to win and I don't really like quitting like quitting is not an option for me so there's that kind of sort of baked in personality as well I think I think helps. But what I mean,  I've studied a lot of mindset and work with mindset coaches as well. And so start to build in some really good daily disciplines around meditation, around really getting really clear on what the outcome is that I want and visualising that and feeling as if I've already got it. And then what are the actions I can take today? And then at the end of the day, well, and also in the mornings, like gratitude, what am I grateful for? What's actually working that I'm grateful for in those small wins? 

So really tapping into those small wins. And even at the end of the day, what did I win today? And I mean, I'm not as disciplined on that now as I should be, as I was there for periods of time there that really just helped get me through. Was you know those just keeping clarity on the vision of the outcome that I wanted, and as if I already had it and just every day doing those little little things there to shift my mindset and keep the belief in the outcome  that I'm driving towards. 

Paul Sonneveld
It's certainly unfortunately, inevitable. That's how kind of growth comes plateaued but it's like for an individual level, you've got to hang in there motivate re-energize particularly as a founder, you're sort of at the top, and you know it's not like someone else can necessarily motivate you you know 

Hamish Conway
No it's, it's yeah, that's a weird one there isn't it? From a like i mean you are like ultimately accountable and i mean for me like i've definitely burnt out had periods of burnout where i just get really ineffective kind of drone along doing covering the basics but when the best thing to do would have been to take a week off but there's this kind of obligation rightly or wrongly that it's like i've got to be here because it's things aren't working as they should. 

I'm the one here that's gotta i've gotta hustle, i've gotta fix, I've gotta make it work and then you just actually get ineffective but and just energy's low and thinking's not clear and thinking's not positive and and so that's been you know i've caught myself a couple of times on on that and that's something you know as a signal i'd pay more attention well i do pay more attention to now and go right i've gotta i've gotta reset and recharge here and you know get to to get some new perspective rather than just droning along and effectively. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, absolutely. Sort of looking at it from a different angle is always useful, right? Or just you see something that you didn't see before, and just get your head up a bit. So just sort of staying on the kind of the challenges topic here, right? If you look back in the last ten years, what would you say like your biggest mistakes? Maybe they were like strategic decisions or business directions or investments, you're like, actually, that created a six-month detour, all this energy and effort didn't go anywhere, what a waste of time. I would skip straight past that next time like are there any examples like that that you can share with the audience? 

Hamish Conway
Oh man, sometimes I think about this. If I could have the money back from all the mistakes I made, that would be awesome. But you can't. So, I mean, there's the obvious, you know, investing in some courses or training that don't work or, you know, that you didn't really execute on properly. Annoying. Those aside, I think... know there's the like early days we were starting with a like a coaching group sort of model where you know, and that was you know because that was how I kind of got into Amazon and you know people you know paid their their one-off fee for a period of time. 

So i think we you know you've got coaching and then you've got the done for you side of things often off an agency and i think we stayed too long in the coaching side of things and put so much time and energy into that where it's a one-off payment versus the agency side where that is recurring revenue and lifetime values can be much higher. Like for us now our average length of time a client is with us is two and a half years, and we've got some that have been with us now for eight and a half years or to even ten and in various shapes and forms. So that was a big mistake in terms of time and effort there. 

And linked to that was one of the coaching groups we did was around a marketplace is not just Amazon. So I was thinking in australia this went to Amazon a bit smaller. We need to do eBay, catch and andmMeyer and these other marketplaces helping with that, and that just increased complexity, made it really difficult to scale, and so that was kind of trying to do too many things was a mistake and cost time. 

What else I think you know, there's always the mistake of taking spending too much time on the wrong clients,  and that is clients that um we're just going to be difficult to make work anyway. So it's a bad experience for them. It's a bad experience for you because you've made a promise and you've got to try and figure it out. So that's always a constant one there to kind of filter and have that lens of, can I actually help this client? And also what i was saying earlier, like setups can be really hard time-consuming budgets don't work, so we kind of stopped doing a lot of the one-off work and focused in on on the recurring. 

And then there's also paul there's been times just you know i was alluding to you know where we're having some operational challenges was not making decisions fast enough, like fearing making the decision. Because I’m concerned about the fallout that could come from it, so that in hindsight, like there's always like when there's people involved and feelings and emotions and all of that, that's the you know like fearing the outcome and not making a difficult decision soon enough is probably um particularly around the people hiring or restructuring side of things. 

Paul Sonneveld
We never seem to make decisions on that front too early right it's always too late it's always it's always in hindsight you go we should have done this three months ago six months ago whatever the whatever the thing is right 

Hamish Conway
Yeah and because, and i think it's because like you kind of touched on before, the people that get you to a certain point aren't always the people who get to the next point and that's like people the people no one's ever been bad or been dishonest or done anything like that but it's just there's a there's a point that you know people are good to get you to get you this far but they're not the right people to get you to the next stage and that's what makes it hard because it's not it's not sometimes super black and white. Yeah, you're always dealing with that ambiguity, which is business and life, so yeah. 

Paul Sonneveld
Let's talk about one of the decisions that I know you have got right, because you're a customer of ours, I can see some of your numbers, and that has been your pivot or your service offering into Amazon Vendor. And very much from like a 3P world, let's call that for now, decided to pivot into Amazon Vendor as an additional one. I don't think you've given up on 3P. I think you're doing both. 

Hamish Conway
No, we're still doing both, yeah. 

Paul Sonneveld
I'd love to just understand a little bit more about what drove that decision. And also, how did you go about building the capabilities in that space? Because it is quite a different ball game than the seller model in some respects. 

Hamish Conway
Yeah, for sure. So a lot of it came about because the sort of brands we were wanting to work with were vendors on Amazon Australia. That was just how they thought that was the only way they could get set up on Amazon. So they just happened to be there. Because it was different then, we started to go okay well as an agency, we're about what problems can we solve for our clients. So we knew like because already on there advertising was obvious, and we're getting great results really quickly there for them because they're already set up and usually winning you know no buy box issues, and pricing was good, knowing brands, and so that would that just put fuel on that on what was already working. 

But then it was like, okay, what other problems are they dealing with? Negotiating with Amazon shortages. And so it kind of opened up new revenue streams for us. And really, it came about through, I mean, lots of conversations and lots of learning and even, you know, through MerchantSpring and talking with you and having MerchantSpring and the data that we've got there and how that can support, like we use that a lot to support brands we work with and then negotiations with Amazon to pinpoint where they should put their attention and the AVNs and to show them the the facts and where they're strong and their points to negotiate on. 

And then, with that, we've also been doing vendor mastermind meetups, that's, and I'm here in Sydney doing one of those today. And when we're getting people together and having conversations and people sharing it's like we've kind of got this amazing perspective now like we know what brands are doing, and what good looks like and you know, if brands come to us and we can tell that Amazon is having a laugh, then we will tell them that. So we kind of just learned quickly through having good conversations, finding out what pain points people had, digging into it and just learning. Like, as you do, that's there. And now we've hired people, though, that have sold themselves on the vendor side. So they've got deep knowledge of it now. And so that's made a big difference there as well. So that's kind of the high level of how we ended up there and how we do it. 

Paul Sonneveld
It's a great success story. I know many of the clients that you work with, you probably can't mention publicly, but you've managed to build a fantastic portfolio of an Amazon vendor business or support agencies in that space. So well done. 

Hamish Conway
Thank you. 

Paul Sonneveld
We're almost out of time. I want to try and two more questions. Let's see how we go. The first one is about culture, right? You've got a challenge that I think many other agency owners face in terms of you have a very distributed team. You have a team in the Philippines, you have people in Melbourne, you have people in New Zealand and they may even live in different places. There's not like they're all the same and all that. Geographically dispersed actually, very common for Amazon agencies, very common. How do you instill a sense of culture and alignment and feeling of one team, what's your advice to other agency owners? 

Hamish Conway
Yeah. So, I mean, look, it is a tricky one, right? But I think we've done a pretty good job of it. And that is, I mean, it starts with the hiring good people, obviously. So we do have our weekly you know, different teams will have their weekly meetings. And then now we used to have a weekly one with everyone. It was just starting to get too big. So we now have a main monthly, like one hour, all hands and how the month has gone and what the key focus is and what wins have we had, et cetera, and getting people to share what's working. 

And then the middle of the month is really a culture-focused and getting people to like shout outs in terms of what people have, who have been helping each other internally or wins with client results, which is a big thing we like to like to see or what people are working on, from a know maybe from an ai point of view. So we yeah so we build, we do that. But we've got just really good leaders in the company who have one-on-ones like, we do we're really deliberate about one-on-ones and the and the kind of individual teams and overall team it's kind of how we do it so no one is kind of left out.

But as that from a culture, you know that all comes down to what people see you do and, you know, the fact that we do genuinely care about client results and we talk about that all the time, that's usually first reason. I know as an agency, if clients are doing well and we can help them win, then we'll win as well. They'll stick around, they'll tell other people. So that's a really key part of the culture. Solving big problems, doing the right thing. Like we, you know, people see that we don't, you know, like we make difficult decisions and we'll pay money back if we need to, or we say no to things that just aren't right, et cetera. So that's all part of it there. 

Look, it's difficult, but it is around that, you know, there's the good old, was it Stephen Covey had the emotional bank account, building the emotional bank account. So getting all those little deposits in there all the time, just constantly build that trust. And yeah, and just pay, we pay people properly. So that makes a difference as well. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, that's, you know, I count at least five or six different kind of nuggets or things that, you know, people could just replicate, right? That's a great, you know, particularly a bit around like all hands and how often you do it and the ownership of like, you're hiring great leaders who can run great one-on-ones and, you know, look after people's personal development, all that. So it doesn't all fall on you. Great tips. 

All right, last question before we wrap up. We're already five minutes over time, but I always like to finish on sort of a more of a future-looking question, which is, you know, you're an agency owner. You've been in this game ten years. As you now look ahead, what do you believe the next stage of agency growth will require? Whether it be leadership, systems, AI, client value, you know, what do you, crystal ball question, right? What do you think it's going to look like in terms of, and what are the things that you're thinking about investing in or building from a capability point of view to meet those changes? 

Hamish Conway
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, look, I mean, I think it's going to be a phenomenal time in the next few years in terms of change, like, obviously, things are changing, and, you know, must be changing with it. So I think the, like, as an agency is getting really clear on what is the outcome that you're delivering for your client, you know, like, that's, the client is more concerned about the outcome than how you get to that. And I think the time for money thing is done. It is about results. So that's one of the things. 

And then obviously, AI is a part of how you can deliver results faster or get to better decisions because of the more thorough information to help brands and the strategies being better because of the research that can be done. So just a real focus on what's the outcome and then just a constant problem-solving mindset to it. So AI will be through you know everything that is happening but bringing the human touch and that's something that you know won't be changing and i think more important than ever is to have you know people in the team really skilled on the com you know having really strong commercial sense um ability to ask really good questions and really be an advisor to to the brands and because we still have amazing perspective. And I think agencies, that's one of the things you've got perspective on, and that's hugely valuable. 

Another part is around how we, you know, given we've got that perspective and how we can use data like aggregated and normalised data to actually have really valuable insights for clients. And there's some things we're working on there as well that we can own. That'll be really, you know, really useful for brands to have. But I think still from a team point of view people are going to be continually looking for growth themselves, they'll be wanting to learn about AI and they're still looking for meaning and being part of something that they really feel they're contributing so got to constantly be considering that like how do i help the team get what they want in in their life as well.So i know it's pretty hard i wish i had a crystal ball but that that's some of the things that i'm that i'm thinking about as we uh as we look forward but it's going to be full full-on like there's going to be a lot of change a lot of change coming up and and how you know like having to almost rip things up and start again in terms of how how  the value engine of what we do is uh is delivered 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, a hundred percent. I think, well, on a positive note, it keeps us interesting and challenging, right? Certainly not a humdrum situation that we're looking at. 

Hamish Conway
Yeah. And I think community and things like what you're doing here is really important to, you know, like real, real humans. And those connections are going to be increasingly important. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah i have thought about replacing myself with some sort of AI avatar that just speaks in fact you probably want to know if it's really me or not it's just one day i have no idea, Hamish we're gonna have to wrap up there but i just want to say thank you so much for your time i know you're a busy guy you got a lot of things on in sydney today. Thank you for your time, and thank you for being just honest and sharing, sharing your successes and failures and openly sharing your thinking as well you know not not all agency owners are so prepared to do that 

But I think that's where the real value in terms of bringing back to the community really exists, so thank you so much for that, and good luck with your event in Sydney today. I hope it goes well. I've attended a couple of Melbourne-based events, and they're certainly fantastic and great for networking and just hearing what's going on the vendor side. Just if there's anyone that's listening to this and wants to just follow up with you, maybe have a conversation about vendor or building agencies or whatever I mean, what is the best way to get in touch with you? 

Hamish Conway
So yeah, my email is hamish@gosell global.com and there you go look at that and or LinkedIn, i'm on LinkedIn there as well. So send me a message there, and I'm looking at that regularly and yeah, be great too great to connect. If you're another agency owner, wherever in the world you're not happy to have a conversation because I know it's a sometimes it can be a lonely job, but happy to help. Cool. 

Paul Sonneveld
All right. Thanks for your time, Hamish. Till next time. 

Hamish Conway
Okay, Amazing. Thanks, Paul. Really appreciate it. All the best. 

Paul Sonneveld
Bye-bye. All right, everyone. That concludes this live episode of Marketplace Masters. I hope this session really gave you some practical perspective on what it really takes to build an agency that really lasts. Just a reminder, all registrants will receive a recording afterwards. And if you're interested in checking out some of our prior episodes or what's coming up next, head to our shiny new website at merchantspring.io. Under the resources section, you will find a whole range of videos, articles, blogs, all about agency best practice topics or Amazon vendor topics, so lots of content on both sides there, but until next time, take care and see you soon.