The AWD vs 3PL Debate: A Decision Framework for Amazon Brands and Agencies

Paul Sonneveld
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Marketplace Masters. Today, we're getting into a debate that's playing out in agency select channels and brand strategy meetings across North America right now, namely AWD or Amazon's warehousing and distribution service versus your own 3PL. The big question, which fulfillment model is actually better for you and your Amazon business in 2026? And under what scenarios does each make sense? 

Now, the timing of this conversation is an accidental with Amazon's new fuel and logistics surcharge surcharges live transportation costs climbing, and these West region pricing shifting underneath everyone's feet. The mess is certainly changing. Now, to work through all of this with us, I am joined by Ephraim Ausch, the Chief Logistics Officer at Tactical Logistics Solutions. He is a former Amazon seller and is now running one of the most respected 3PLs in the space. Ephraim, welcome to the show. 

Ephraim Ausch
Thank you. Good to be here, Paul. 

Paul Sonneveld
All right. I have a number of interesting questions lined up really just to help us unpack. Before I jump into that, though, just a reminder to our audience, if you are watching live, you can put your questions directly to us and to Ephraim through the comment section on LinkedIn or the comments on YouTube. Both of those will feed directly into our studio here, and we'd love to answer them as we do that. Okay, let me start off with the first question here. For agencies and brand managers that are listening, when a client comes to you and says, hey, we're thinking about moving to AWD, what is the first question you ask them before you can even start to answer that question? 

Ephraim Ausch
My first question is usually, Did you crunch the numbers? So do you know exactly what you are paying for AWD versus what you're paying currently? That's a big question, because there are certain variable costs in AWD versus in a 3PL. Not all of them, but a lot of 3PLs are fixed costs. That would be my first question that I usually ask. 

Paul Sonneveld
And do you find that people have typically done the numbers or is there a perception that, you know, it's Amazon, therefore it must be more affordable because we're dealing with a big organisation there. What sort of assumptions do you typically uncover? 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So a lot of them do the numbers, but not fully. Meaning to say is if you are, I have slow movers and fast movers. On the fast movers, meaning to say is that it's going to be an AWD a month to two months max. That it makes sense, probably to use the AWD. Because the AWD is more expensive on the in, it's more expensive on the out, it's more expensive on the storage, but it's pretty cheap on the transportation from AWD into Amazon FBA. So that's where they win. So if you're holding it there for a short period of time, that's where AWD makes sense for fast movers. 

For slow movers, any product that's an AWD around two, two and a half months, depending on the product, but it,'s so like if it's larger, smaller, heavier, it depends on cubic feet and a lot of factors. But our average that we did with over five hundred brands was if it's there over two months, that's where it's your break-even. Over two and a half months to three months plus, that's where a 3PL usually would come in to be cheaper. So if you're holding product in AWD more than two months, then you really got to double-check and make sure, look over the fees, what AWD is charging you versus what you paid previously in your 3PL and compare numbers. And a lot of times you'll be shocked to see that hey, AWD seems very convincing, and it seems cheap, but their storage is more expensive than a typical 3PL, their in and out is more expensive, even though I'm saving on the trucking. Is the full picture are you actually saving money?

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. It's interesting because it's sort of that makes my next question kind of probably even less relevant, right? Of course, you know, Amazon is just creeping onto all these service territories, right? You know, really nudging its sellers to use more and more of their own services, catching more of that value chain. But do you see AWS as a genuine cost-saving tool? And I think you've already partially answered that. Or is this much more about Amazon gradually just squeezing out kind of third-party logistics here and just going for a greater share of the logistics wallet, so to speak? I mean, how do you hold that tension in your mind? 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So it's a combination of both. Meaning to say is like I was by a conference last year and a big seller stood up and spoke and was like, AWD equals trap. So, obviously, Amazon tries to trap you into their services to tell you it's a better tool, it's a better service, it's cheaper, you know that, but it's not always the truth. So that's one. Number two is, yeah, it's very obvious that Amazon is trying to be the number one logistics provider in the world, especially now in the US, where they have they were providing trucking service, shipping service, importing service and anything for any seller out there that you don't have to only be a seller on Amazon. You could just use their services. So they try to do that as well. Try to get rid of the smaller logistics companies. But it's a combination of both. 

Paul Sonneveld
And how is Amazon currently performing when it comes to AWD. So let's take cost outside the pic away from the picture i think we sort of touched on that. I was seeing as I was preparing for this conversation, I did see quite a lot of chatters on seller forums around stock not being receipted in for months. Sometimes, particularly around Q4. Now we know Q4 is always a bit of a crazy time. I think that's probably for every logistics business that's in the e-commerce space. But you know, what's the situation like in 2026? Are there still, do you still seeing still major issues or have things stabilised? How would you characterise the performance? 

Ephraim Ausch
So it did get a little bit better than 2024, but it's still unpredictable meaning to say is like now before prime day, it's gotten a bit delayed to any time before some sort of season. AWD tends to get more delayed and the West Coast obviously is a little bit more delayed than other parts of the country with getting products into AWD, but it's the part that I always tell larger sellers like, could you afford the unpredictability? Where, like, I'm not sure if it's going to take a week, it's going to take two weeks, it's going to take three weeks to get into Amazon FBA. And if your product that you're currently selling is seasonal or you have a spike in sales due to back-to-school, summer season or a particular holiday, you don't want to risk that losing that piece of business because AWD took too long to get product in. 

Paul Sonneveld
Are there any, just on the flip side, there, are there any benefits of AWD during QFOR? Like, for example, do shipments from AWD back into FBA get priority slots in terms of inbound receiving? Are there any benefits they can extract as an AWD user? 

Ephraim Ausch
No. The short answer is no, because it's longer than anybody else. That's number one. Number two is, I met with one of the senior employees in Amazon at AWD in that division. And then he told me that Amazon has this policy that nobody has priority. Meaning to say is like Amazon is a fair company where everybody has their own. There's no priority one team over the other. So with AWD, getting product into FBA goes through the same exact process as Amazon partner carriers or an Amazon freight carrier to have the same process how things get over there. With Amazon freight just throwing in a side note is different a bit because Amazon freight gives you a live unload option at times, where they can get offloaded live in Amazon, and that obviously gets product in much quicker into Amazon. But that's basically how he said it like. There's no because you used awd like you're going to cut the line and get in much quicker. 

Paul Sonneveld
No preferential treatment. I sort of assumed that in my mind but it's good to hear that clarified on that. Let's talk about the west uh the west region a bit there because there seems to be a kind of a some things that's going on there in terms of costs have gone up quite materially, as well as transport costs. And I've just sourced this from some community forums. So I'm not saying it's super accurate. But for brands, if you're shipping containers into LA, Long Beach, is the West Coast still a sensible entry point? Or how do we think about East Coast or Midwest? Or are there any other inbound points that are now becoming viable, given the West region is really driving up costs. 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So in the West Coast, Amazon AWD increased rates in, I believe it was February of this year, where they went up in price across the board for AWD in the West region. With that said, obviously, there are certain criterias where you get a discount, but overall, you're paying more. It just depends on your priority of your business. So if you're about speed, obviously bringing into the West Coast is much faster. If you're looking about saving costs, you have to look at what is going to be an increase in AWD and what is going to be an increase on the freight getting product in the East Coast, for example, where usually freight forwarding and transportation costs more money because it's a further journey. It's a longer lead time to get it there. 

So that's what I would say is that compare apples to apples is like, okay, me paying extra eight hundred dollars for ocean freight on the East Coast. Do I still save money versus i bring it at the West Coast, where I save eight hundred dollars on the ocean freight part, but I'm going to pay more than eight hundred or less than eight hundred and AWD increase fees. So that's why you have to look at it. But if you're looking at saving money, compare it, it's definitely East Coast, probably the other option. I wouldn't say Midwest is an option, just the pricing and everything makes no sense to bring it to the Midwest and also the transit time is much longer than bringing it to the East Coast. So that's what I would say is like, if East Coast makes sense, maybe try to work with the East Coast. But if East Coast doesn't add up, Midwest is going to be even worse. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, I know. That's clear. Sounds like Midwest is certainly not a realistic option there. And then East Coast is all about, I guess, as you say, doing the numbers. 

Ephraim Ausch
Exactly. 

Paul Sonneveld
Now, in terms of AWD, obviously, it doesn't have to be like a binary decision, right? I mean, a lot of sellers and agencies describe this sort of hybrid approach, right? Use AWD maybe for bulk, Amazon-bound stock, PPL for some prepping, DDC multi-channel. So for an enterprise brand doing, say, eight figures, what could the right structure look like? And that's probably an assumption around, what's their product size and weight and maybe let's take some assumptions. And in your experience, what's the optimal mix of logistics components? 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So in my opinion, from what I've seen with other sellers and what I've seen some sellers especially enterprise-level, eight-figure, nine-figure sellers do, is none of them uses AWD fully. Like, none of them. Not a single one that I've met uses AWD fully. They'll use it for some products and some products not. Successful ones, I would say, is they always have a buffer in a 3PL, or if they have their own warehouse, they have their own warehouse, but they always have a buffer of products from all their SKUs, the whole catalog, sitting not on AWD because just in case AWD is backed up and things get delayed, things get lost, like things happen in AWD, they know they're not going to run out of stock on the product. And especially if you're an enterprise-level seller, you cannot afford to run out of stock. 

Obviously, if your product always requires prep, AWD is not the place for you at all. And DTC, some people use MCF. Some people don't use MCF. People that are selling products that are three, four pounds or less, um, usually MCF will be probably the cheapest or one of the cheapest out there in the market. But if your products, for example, sell more than one item at a time and an average order, um, MCF is going to be more expensive than using probably an outside 3PL. Again, I'm comparing numbers to what we charge or like in that range, there's plenty of 3PLs that are similar to our rate structure. Um, so that's what I'm basing it off. But, uh, I would say the real smart ones always have a buffer stock outside of Amazon's operation just in case things go wrong in any way. They know they have somewhere where to go to get a product and get it at FBA. 

Paul Sonneveld
And just to sort of clarify a question on that, if you have stock in AWD, Amazon still allows you to do direct shipments into FBA as well? 

Ephraim Ausch
Sure. 

Paul Sonneveld
They still, yeah. They don't take that option away from you. Okay. 

Ephraim Ausch
So AWD has an automated option where I'm very against. A lot of sellers have had horror stories with that. So basically, Amazon will see, based on your last thirty days of sales, they'll see how much you sell. So AWD will auto-generate a shipment from AWD into FBA. The issue with that is that if you're, especially if you're seasonal and last month you had a killer month, and you know this month you're going to have a slower month. 

If you leave it on auto, that means Amazon will overstock FBA with product and FBA, you know, is way more expensive on the storage side versus any other option out there. So you could see that. So, people that don't use the auto option, you can send in regular, you can send FBA. It's basically, AWS is basically like a 3PL with very limited amount of services that Amazon provides. That's what it is. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, actually, my question, my next question was actually about that whole concept of this auto replenishment promise, right, which, which sort of the marketing brochure, which is, isn't it wonderful, you don't have to think about that. I guess that's really great if you have a product with super stable demand and things like that. But it's terrible if you have fluctuations and you end up being overstocked in FBA as you say you know, very expensive, very expensive storage, so yeah i can see that going horribly hardly wrong. 

Ephraim Ausch
Yeah i've seen stories where like it was really nice if you have to remove order from fba it's expensive they damage products like three, four percent of product gets damaged transit coming out of there And then you have to send it back in eventually. So your whole margin is gone from that product. So it's really not a good idea to do that. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just one more clarifying question. We spoke about MCF just briefly. My understanding is MCF is only offered from an FBA warehouse, right? AWD is all bulk, pallets. 

Ephraim Ausch
Correct. 

Paul Sonneveld
No DTC fulfillment, right? At the AWD level, yeah. Right. 

Ephraim Ausch
Yeah, it's a limited 3PL. If you're only selling to FBA, it's a perfect place if the price is right. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you see, just out of interest, right? Do you see big brands shipping directly from AWD to like more of the offline retailers? You know, selling... 

Ephraim Ausch
Zero. I've never met one yet. And I've met many sellers, but I've never met someone doing that. Because retailers depend. So most big box store retailers, they all have special requirements. Amazon does not obey to those requirements. Where the label has to be placed, the template of the label, all that needs special requirements. I have not seen it. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, interesting. And I was in Seattle last week, and I was speaking to some of the AWD team. I know this is on their radar. They're thinking about it. But yeah, certainly the perception I have right now is the AWD model is quite a simple, straightforward, limited storage, off-site storage model. I mean, that's probably the wrong words, but that's how I'm holding it in my mind. 

Ephraim Ausch
Again, it's very cool that you have one, like if you use AGL, AWD, or now it's GWD, if you store product in China, and FBA and MCF, like if you have all your eggs in one basket, you have one dashboard, one system used for everything. Yeah, it's very cool and nice. But the question is, is that affecting your bottom line? Are you being lazy or leaving money on the table because you're using all those services? Or I'm actually saving money doing that. So that's what you basically have to look at it. 

That's basically what I'm saying. Because I'm not going to convince a person. It's like, hey, pay more money and come use me, right? I'm going to tell a person like, hey, let's look at the numbers. Let's do an analysis. And then if the price is right, it makes sense to stay there. I'll tell them to stay there. The price makes no sense, then obviously, 3PL is an option for you. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, you know, you spoke a little bit about like, what products make sense and don't make sense. But I'd love to just drill down a little bit deeper on that question. You know, as I was doing some research, you know, I noticed that, oh, like, you know, for small, lightweight, you know, fast-turning products, maybe the AWD model could be more expensive than, you know, shipping directly to FBA, you know, maybe the transport cost is less. 

Are there some example products that you've seen saying, guys, these are no-brainers, you probably should look at AWD as your first preference, right? Versus, are there other categories, examples of products you go, very unlikely, guys, like just... Yes, run the numbers, but I can, you know, ninety nine percent guarantee the numbers are not going to look good for you on these. AWD makes no sense. I mean, can you talk us maybe just through some practical examples so that we give our audience a bit of a template to say, right, if it sort of looks like this, it's worth looking at. If it looks like that, forget about it. 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So, yeah, definitely. So, for example, like small life products, Amazon charges on storage on cubic feet. They charge on transportation from AWD to FBA is cubic feet. So if you for example, sell pens, right? And you have four hundred pens and a master carton right cubic feet, whatever you pay for it is like very minimal cost. So AWD might maybe make sense if you're paying storage on cubic feet and then transportation to cubic feet but if somebody sells like glass jars or coffee machines or light fixtures like bulky items where it's one or two units in a Master Carton, even three, four units in a Master Carton. 

AWD charges between in and out, it's, I think, two dollars and seventy cents, if I remember correctly. So it's a dollar thirty-five in, a dollar thirty-five out, plus storage and plus transportation to FBA. That's where it gets really pricey. So if you have one unit in the box or two units in the box, essentially it's costing a dollar thirty-five to two seventy just for that unit and in and out fee in AWD. Plus, if it's a bulky box, the cubic feet is pretty high. And you're paying a couple of dollars per unit to get it in delivered into FBA. 

So that's what I usually look at is like, what does it make more sense? If you're more of a bulky product, even a standard size, but it's bulky item, or it's, you have a very small amount of units per master carton. That's where you're getting a ding a lot because most 3PLS are way cheaper than 270 in and out for a box. And then storage obviously they're cheaper as well so it's just the transportation cost where amazon awd is pretty cheap but at the same time if it's bulky product you're overpaying so that's where I usually put where I'll line the for the sand like a middle is like okay this is where it stops and this is where it makes sense where it doesn't make sense 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah yeah Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it sounds like units per Master Carton is a good proxy, assuming that the Master Carton isn't massive, right? 

Ephraim Ausch
Right, exactly. I would say like small pen items versus pens, scotch tape, little scissors, like smaller product where you could have fifty, sixty, a hundred units in the product. We have plenty of customers that are bulky, like they sell, like I said, like a light fixture. We have a coffee brand, glass jars. Many different items like baskets bins all these type of things are bulky and that's where you get pretty killed pretty hard on the cubic feet  and then or for a lot of customers that was like why do you only have four units in a box if the box weighs twenty pounds for example right and it's pretty small and you could put in another four units or ten units in the box and it's still gonna weigh under the forty five or fifty pounds where amazon requires and you're maximizing your box so the in and out is cheaper than obviously it might be cheaper. 

So that's, that's how your brain has to think is like, how do I utilise maximise my costs? If you use 3PLs, like how do I maximise the 3PLs for 3PLs? Like if they, if I maximise the pallet and storage, that's where you maximise in 3PL and Amazon was like, the more units I have, if I'm getting charged in and out fee per box, let me maximise the box. Right. But then you got to think about how big is it going to be? Like, shouldn't be too big because then you get killed on the cubic feet. So that's where I would tell people to think and start crunching numbers that way. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah, I mean, for me, the big takeaway there is really understand how the cost structure works and then ask yourself the question, have we really optimised for that in terms of packaging, configuration, all of those things? Particularly in the current climate, which actually is a good segue to go into the broader cost piece. Obviously, the logistics cost is under enormous pressure this year. It's having a material impact on the bottom line for a lot of sellers and the agencies that support them. 

I sort of have a two-part question. The first part is really focused on the 3PL side, and the second part is a much broader piece. But in terms of the 3PL, let's say I'm an enterprise-level brand. I've got really good volumes. I'm dealing with 3PL, or I'm considering changing. You know, what are part of the terms or SLAs and pricing structure that I could really push this year? I mean, where is there some movement to negotiate and trying to reduce some cost in terms of 3PL? And then I'll, you know, I have a follow-up question, which talks about the broader logistics picture. 

Ephraim Ausch
Right. So my goal is always was when I was a seller. I was in the grocery line, so I sold gift baskets, candy, bulk candy, bulk chocolate. So I use a co-packer. So I imported products from overseas. I cleared customs. I used, trucking company to bring the product to my co-packer. I use a co-packer like a 3PL. Basically, they packed my stuff and stored it and shipped it into Amazon. And then I use the truck company to get actual products into Amazon. 

So that's basically, where i had always a hard time figuring it out like what's my actual cost per unit because some costs were not variable i mean were variable some were fixed or not so when we when i joined our family business tactical was like all our rates needs to be fixed so if you're using a 3PL and you have costs where they're very variable like it's cubic feet or a pallet comes in it's like you can even have two boxes you're paying a full price like that's where areas where you could try to play around with and try to figure out. I mean, costs did go up. Fuel is really high now about the war. Fuel went up like crazy. 

So everything, like ocean freight went up, trucking went up, everything went up recently. So the question is where you need to try to save money. It's like a 3PL, like us, like we have our fixed costs, we have our employees, we have rent to pay, we have machinery, all these things that are also costs for us, right? But then you have certain scenarios where it's like, if you charge me per box versus per pallet, will I be paying cheaper? Like, you know, my fixed cost per box is a dollar, let's say, in, and let's say a dollar out. So, you know, two dollars in and out, you're done, right? 

So, things like that is where I would tell people to think and see to see if they could restructure. SLA's perspective is, I hear horror stories sometimes with people like, oh, my 3PL takes me a week or ten days to get an order ready. That shouldn't be unacceptable. So, that's something that they are doing, or you're not happy with, it's definitely good to have a conversation with them. A typical 3PL should not take a week, or we can have to get orders ready. We usually get orders ready in forty eight hours for B2B and then D2C the same day or next day. So that's those are the pointers where I would say people think what to do. 

Paul Sonneveld
That's very practical. You've just given us a little checklist of things we can just check off and do. And then for my second part of the question, I mean, this could be another whole episode in itself. But if you're looking at the total logistics picture, like we already mentioned one of them, right? Should we go West Coast and think about East Coast and all that? Other big levers people should be putting on the table this year to really see if they can drive some reduction or slow the growth of some of their logistics and supply chain costs. You know, other big picture items that you say, guys, this is the year you need to really look at this because there might be something there for you. 

Ephraim Ausch
I would say it's like in the past year and a half is where a lot of people have woken up and realized because it was this COVID era, where a lot of logistics companies were taking advantage of people and just charging a lot of money because they knew the demand was there. And then obviously demand diminished and went down and became pretty much normal. And that's where people started like really like, I would say like do a DNA test and really see like, am I getting ripped off? Am I getting taken advantage? Is there any way that I could save costs? So, so where I help a lot of times people is like on the logistics aspect is like crunching numbers, understanding what they're looking at because most sellers love what they love to do is they love selling product. They're passionate about their brand. They enjoy doing that. And that's where, that's where they started. That's where they're selling product is because they're passionate about what they're selling. 

But a lot of them don't have that logistics experience, that logistics background, or they just trust too much what their logistics partner tells them is the right thing. And that's where I always tell people like, okay, let's look over like, what are you paying currently? What is not working and what is working? So if it's not working, it's about the price, then let's look over the pricing. If it's not working because the efficiency and things like that is like, okay, how could you become more efficient? And I could tell him like, sometimes like certain products, just let's use AWD for this, just send them directly into FBA because you're moving so fast. There's no reason for you to go through a 3PL, or those are the reasons even to go through AWD, just go straight into FBA, different scenarios like that. 

And then also about diversifying, it's like you have this established brand, you have all this going for yourself now is how are you going to diversify your product? Because Amazon, if you have all your eggs in one basket, it's not the healthiest of things. Like we, we all know Amazon sometimes could do, certain things where we don't get happy about or it's increasing fees, or you get a listing gets shut down, or you're fighting with a competitor that keeps on getting you shut down from Amazon, like all these types of things are, are in a certain way risky, right? So by diversifying going on TikTok Shop grew tremendously in the last year, starting your own Shopify stores and investment but also could grow. Walmart is also picking up some traction recently. You have Target, you have other markets like Best Buy just started their marketplace last year. And then there's Temu, there's Shein, there's other places where you can sell. 

So a lot has changed in the last year and a half. And I see it more and more as like the smaller sellers doing three million or less are really falling out of the whole e-commerce system. And the ones that really figured out things are the people that really looked into every aspect of the business including logistics where it's a super important piece of the business even though it's boring or it's sparring or whatever it is it's a very important aspect because that's a big piece of your cost is logistics and starting to really look at where could i grow my business and diversify some even are trying to go into retail as well. So it's very interesting to see how the last year and a half i'm sure you've seen it as well Paul's where things have shifted so much where you don't find so many people just like, I just sell on Amazon. Like most sellers I meet right now. Yeah, I sell on Amazon. I started recently on TikTok. I started like, I opened my Shopify store. Like we're starting to see that conversation. So that's what I would say is super important. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yeah. No, certainly that I do remember, particularly in the US, like two, three years ago, it was always like, no, I'm just going to go harder on Amazon. You know, why bother with Walmart? But now the, you know, certainly the atmosphere is changing around that. People's perspectives are changing, and yeah. I think a lot of that is just about the profitability pressure as well. Profits. 

Ephraim Ausch
So it's also control. It's also control. Like people want to feel like I control my brand. Right. So like an Amazon sort of, there's a certain percentage where like, you don't have control. If you opt Amazon's mercy, how they're going to deal with you. If you have your own Shopify store, it's your brand, your customer, you own them. So it's a lot of different things that people think, but it's definitely changed. 

Paul Sonneveld
Yep. Yeah. A hundred percent. Cool. Hey, unfortunately, we're out of time, Ephraim. But I just want to say thank you so much. It was a really practical, no-fluff conversation here. And I think all is going to walk away with lots of practical tips. And just what I always like trying to achieve is a couple of questions that we can leave with them. To sort of think about how they can optimise things further. I think you've given us plenty of those. Now, there might be people listening to this and say, well, actually, what Ephraim is saying is actually makes a lot of sense. I'd love to continue a conversation. I'd love to go a bit deeper or, you know, I'm not happy with my 3PL. Let's have a conversation. How do they best get in touch with you? 

Ephraim Ausch
So, I mean, the easiest, you just search my name on LinkedIn, connect with me. I have no problem taking it from there. Or it's ephraim@tacticallogistic.com. That's my personal email that you can email me, or if you go on the website and you do the contact us page and you put in your information that comes through to me first and then if you say like mention the word Ephraim that you want to have a conversation with me. I'll make sure to respond and get a call scheduled if not it might go to one of our sales people  in the company but regardless you'll you'll be in good hands but if you want to speak so with me, you just put it into the comments that you want to speak with me about whatever topic you want i'll be happy to have a conversation. 

Paul Sonneveld
Awesome. That's fantastic. Well, Ephraim, thank you so much for your time. Much, much appreciated. 

Ephraim Ausch
Thank you, Paul. Great seeing you. 

Paul Sonneveld
Take care. All right, everyone, that brings us to the end of today's episode. For those that are watching this on demand, feel free to check out our whole entire library of resources. We've got lots of webinars focused on the logistics side of things, both for vendors and sellers. So go to merchantspring.io to our resources section and have a look there. But that's it for today. I look forward to seeing you again next week, where we're going to talk about direct fulfillment from a vendor's perspective? You know, does it make sense? How do we operate that in a hybrid world? And what are some of the strategy angles around that? So I look forward to a great conversation there as well. Until next week, take care, happy selling. Bye.